discuss: Thread: Re: Video Streaming to TV, Casting to TV, Play Movie HOWTO

It's really crazy that you just dumped your duties and now crtitisise
the community, Mr JDD.

Rick, "longstanding practice at LDP" has finished when the person who
read that mail officially finished doing that and announced it on the
list. Moving to GIT, which is free software, at least helped to
receive _any_ updates. Microsoft does not change the fact that with
GIT we are able to move in any time without losing any portion of the
repository.

If you want guys to join LDP, you are welcome. Every little bit helps.

Serge

Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####

> It's really crazy that you just dumped your duties and now crtitisise
> the community, Mr JDD.

Excuse me, Serge, but what specific duties do you assert that I dumped?
Any at all?  Can you name at least one?  Any?  If you think you can
simply decree that having and using a login w/associated contractual
relationship at GitHub is a 'duty', you are very mistaken.

I have continued to diligently maintain my works and will gladly make
them available ot LDP via any submission method LDP prefers that 
doesn't require me to sign up for a conractual relationship with
Microsoft subsidiary GitHub, Inc.

Since you have -- yet again -- pointedly ignored my polite request that
someone identify such a submission method of any kind, I guess the
answer is that you prefer LDP to be Microsoft-dependent and are evading
my question.

This is the same non-answer you gave in 2013.  I mostly wanted to call
attention to the matter, and see if the non-answer is the same since
Microsoft Corporation's acquisition.

OK, fine.  LDP wishes to part with the open source community.  Let me
know if LDP changes this policy


> Rick, "longstanding practice at LDP" has finished when the person who
> read that mail officially finished doing that and announced it on the
> list. Moving to GIT, which is free software, at least helped to
> receive _any_ updates. Microsoft does not change the fact that with
> GIT we are able to move in any time without losing any portion of the
> repository.

I'm always delighted to use git -- of course.

Are you suggesting some workflow using git, but without requiring a GitHub
account?  If so, I'd be delighted to hear it.  (I've asked that question
before, and the question was ignored.)

Logging into GitHub and using git are fundamentally distinct things.
I really hope you didn't think we couldn't figure that out.


> If you want guys to join LDP, you are welcome.

I _did_ join LDP -- a couple of decades before you, I do believe.  LDP 
has seemingly quit _me_, and quit the open source community generally.

If that changes, kindly let us know.  Until then, the head versions of
my HOWTO and FAQ are elsewhere.  They're open source, so you're welcome
to pick up the SGML any time LDP wants them.

But don't bother with the spin control.  It's not fooling anyone.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 10:04, Rick Moen ####@####.#### wrote:
>
> Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####
>
> > It's really crazy that you just dumped your duties and now crtitisise
> > the community, Mr JDD.
>
> Excuse me, Serge, but what specific duties do you assert that I dumped?
> Any at all?  Can you name at least one?  Any?  If you think you can
> simply decree that having and using a login w/associated contractual
> relationship at GitHub is a 'duty', you are very mistaken.

You are not Mr JDD.

> OK, fine.  LDP wishes to part with the open source community.  Let me
> know if LDP changes this policy

Linux is hosted in Github, I have not realised that it is not free
source anymore.

> > If you want guys to join LDP, you are welcome.
>
> I _did_ join LDP -- a couple of decades before you, I do believe.  LDP
> has seemingly quit _me_, and quit the open source community generally.
>
> If that changes, kindly let us know.  Until then, the head versions of
> my HOWTO and FAQ are elsewhere.  They're open source, so you're welcome
> to pick up the SGML any time LDP wants them.

You have joined a different LDP, where someone was doing "longstanding
practices".

Please realise that it has finished so you must join again and help to
develop tools which could for example allow us to leave github. Or
join and volunteer to process documentation, which currently is
processed automatically with github partners.

if you criticise, just put an effort to create an alternative of the
current set up. I am afraid that nobody here will pick your SGML, as
it requires additional effort, not less effort when volunteers time is
scarce.


S.

Sorry, one more thing:

Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####

> Rick, "longstanding practice at LDP" has finished when the person who
> read that mail officially finished doing that and announced it on the
> list.

I am about 99.9% certain no such announcement was made on this mailing
list.  I've been right here, and am pretty certain I would have noticed
such an announcement.  Perhaps it was made on some other mailing list,
to which I'm not subscribed.

That aside, if LDP decided that ####@####.#### would at some point
no longer be a valid submission method, wouldn't it be common sense to 
at _least_ make that address no longer deliverable, or, better yet, make
the MTA autoreject mail to that address with an explanatory SMTP 55x
Delivery Status Notification rejection?

That was not done.  I was one of perhaps many HOWTO authors repeatedly
submitting updates during the early 2010s without any indication of
their being a problem, but later figuring out that these submissions
merely disappeared into a black hole, silently.

That is now merely an embarrassing LDP screwup from bygone days and a
lesson about how to shoot one's self in the foot, but I strongly 
doubt your assertion about an announcement that submission via e-mail
would no longer be supported.  If you disagree, can you show me this in
the archives?  I've just reviewed back postings from January 2010 to the
present, and find no such announcment.  On the other hand, I did see a
posting by Martin A. Brown on Feb. 4, 2016 that submission by e-mail for
authors declining to use GitHub would continue.  When I attempted to do
so, and indicated I was amenable to any other non-GitHub means, I was of
course ignored, as noted.

Anyhow, if you seriously claim (some person) 'announced it on the list',
kindly show where this occurred.  Thanks.

Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####

> You are not Mr JDD.

I cannot help notice you have completely ignored the question about what
if any 'duties' I have 'dumped'.  Not a surprise.  OK, so 'dumped your
duties' is just transparent bushwah.  The only thing surprising about
this is that you thought anyone wouldn't notice.

> > OK, fine.  LDP wishes to part with the open source community.  Let me
> > know if LDP changes this policy
> 
> Linux is hosted in Github, I have not realised that it is not free
> source anymore.

Please show me the part where code submissions to the Linux kernel must
be done via a GitHub account.  (Or did you really think I wouldn't
notice that you ducked the question and changed the subject?)

You know, you have the misfortune of trying to sell a nonsense argument
to someone who is actually familiar with Linux kernel development.
Possibly you're unaware that the submission process doesn't involve
GitHub in anyway, but rather via subsystem maintainers.  And no, the
mainline kernel repo does not live on GitHub, either.  The actual
repositories are at kernel.org.  GitHub's repo is just a mirror.

Obviously.

Next time, Serge, don't try to tell me about subjects you just don't
know at all.  It wastes time, and makes you look more than a little foolish.


> Please realise that it has finished so you must join again and help to
> develop tools which could for example allow us to leave github.

My question about how you wish submission without requiring an account
with attached contract at a Microsoft subsidiary remains.  I gather that
you have no answer.

Kindly stop talking around the truth, which is that you insist on LDP
being Microsoft-dependent.  Let us know if that ever changes.  Until
then, I'll be maintaining documentation elsewhere.


> if you criticise, just put an effort to create an alternative of the
> current set up.

OK, here you are:
v1.8.7 is at http://linuxmafia.com/lug/User-Group-HOWTO.sgml  .  If you
insist it needs to be checked into GitHub to be in LDP, it's available
any time you want to pick it up.

No?  Well, then LDP loses, but fortunately that and other documentation
will continue to be maintained elsewhere.

Have a nice day.  I'm done here, it appears.

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 11:07, Rick Moen ####@####.#### wrote:
>
> Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####
>
> > You are not Mr JDD.
>
> I cannot help notice you have completely ignored the question about what
> if any 'duties' I have 'dumped'.  Not a surprise.  OK, so 'dumped your
> duties' is just transparent bushwah.  The only thing surprising about
> this is that you thought anyone wouldn't notice.

I am surprised that you still claim that you are Mr. JDD, who nominated
himself as our Coordinator: http://wiki.tldp.org/LdpStaff

> > > OK, fine.  LDP wishes to part with the open source community.  Let me
> > > know if LDP changes this policy
> >
> > Linux is hosted in Github, I have not realised that it is not free
> > source anymore.
>
> Please show me the part where code submissions to the Linux kernel must
> be done via a GitHub account.  (Or did you really think I wouldn't
> notice that you ducked the question and changed the subject?)

Every single Linux code submission must be done via Github. EVERY. If
someone does not want to do it personally, he/she must find someone
who will make it on behalf. I am surprised that you still use Linux
kernel.


Replying to the other email, Greg Ferguson, who was processing
submissions, resigned in 2014 in a private email.
He did not announce it publicly I am afraid and the submission LDP
documentation was not modified accordingly.

On ####@####.#### there is for long an autoresponder which informs
about the change, though, so no submission gets lost.



Serge

Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####

> I am surprised that you still claim that you are Mr. JDD, who nominated
> himself as our Coordinator: http://wiki.tldp.org/LdpStaff

I am _not_ surprised that, when challenged by a nonsense claim, you
respond by posting additional nonsense claims.  (However, I am
disappointed.)

 
> Every single Linux code submission must be done via Github. EVERY. 

The kernel community, and basic consensual reality, does not concur with
your claim.  If you ever wish to learn how the Linux kernel development
process _actually_ works, it's explained in the kernel's own
Linux Kernel User's and Adminstrator's Guide, available on the Web here,
for example:
https://www.kernel.org/doc/html/v4.12/process/submitting-patches.html

Check for yourself.  Neither there or anywhere else in the kernel team's
process documentation is there any requirement to use GitHub, any suggestion
to use GitHub, or even any mention of GitHub.  On the other hand, there
is copious documentation about how things actually work.

You are, in short, greatly mistaken.  And on a matter that you could and
should have pretty easily checked, too.  (Maybe, to be very charitable,
you are confused between git the SCM that was originally invented by and for
kernel.org as a bk replacement, and GitHub the proprietary software
service, which wraps around the sponsoring corporation's git repos.
However, you really ought to be able to tell those apart, as it's not a
difficult distinction.)



> Replying to the other email, Greg Ferguson, who was processing
> submissions, resigned in 2014 in a private email.
> He did not announce it publicly I am afraid and the submission LDP
> documentation was not modified accordingly.

Actually, Greg's resignation was announced here.

That doesn't respond, however, to my asking where it was announced that 
submissions would no longer be accepted via e-mail.  I thus conclude
that you cannot support the claim you made to that effect.

> On ####@####.#### there is for long an autoresponder which informs
> about the change, though, so no submission gets lost.

1.  The longtime submission address for English-language documents was
not ####@####.#### but rather ####@####.####  There is as yet
still no such autoresponder there.  (I just checked.)

2.  There is _also_ no autoresponder on ####@####.####  (I just
checked.)

This is getting sad, folks.

Update:

> 1.  The longtime submission address for English-language documents was
> not ####@####.#### but rather ####@####.####  There is as yet
> still no such autoresponder there.  (I just checked.)
> 
> 2.  There is _also_ no autoresponder on ####@####.####  (I just
> checked.)

Autoresponder mail from both of those addresses  did eventually get
sent in response to test mails.  It just took quite a few minutes, so I
had stopped waiting when I said there was none.

There was definitely no such autoreponder in 2016 when I inquired here after
three years of my updates to ####@####.#### getting silently
ignored, and was told by Serge (paraphrased) 'Oh, just use GitHub.'

My thanks to whoever got around to deploying the autoresponder.

Le 13/02/2019 à 03:45, Serge Victor a écrit :
> It's really crazy that you just dumped your duties and now crtitisise
> the community, Mr JDD.

I wont discuss long with you. I was accepted as ldp coordinator very 
long ago after a long discussion, and when I wanted to resign I 
announced that long before stopping the work, so that anybody could take 
the job.

I do not critisise anybody, simply notice there is no more any ldp activity.

http://tldp.org/sorted_howtos_full.html

say last update was 2015 (one), then 2014 (one) then 2013

I still read this list (mostly empty) but write rarely not to let think 
I have anymore any responsibility in the LDP. For example I have no more 
any access to the LDP servers and don't want any...

and of the story for me

thanks for anybody making work.

jdd


-- 
http://dodin.org

On Wed, 13 Feb 2019 at 12:21, Rick Moen ####@####.#### wrote:
>
> Quoting Serge Victor ####@####.####
>
> > I am surprised that you still claim that you are Mr. JDD, who nominated
> > himself as our Coordinator: http://wiki.tldp.org/LdpStaff
>
> I am _not_ surprised that, when challenged by a nonsense claim, you
> respond by posting additional nonsense claims.  (However, I am
> disappointed.)

Again, you are still not JDD, who was the addressee of that claim. It
was probably a language barrier which made his claim harsher than he
intended.

>  Neither there or anywhere else in the kernel team's
> process documentation is there any requirement to use GitHub, any suggestion
> to use GitHub, or even any mention of GitHub.  On the other hand, there
> is copious documentation about how things actually work.

Show me a single new line of code in recent kernel which was not
submitted to github first.


******

OK, until you propose any solutions and identify a person who is going
to deploy them, I do not plan to follow this discussion.

I spent last month good few days on moving LDP services from our
previous box which was hosted by ibiblio and reached its end-of-life.
We are now on the UNC cloud, hopefully any future relocations will be
easier from now.

If someone does volunteer to be a gateway between email submissions
and GIT repository, please let me know, I will make an email alias.

I plan to continue to work on LDP improvements as we just received new
hardware potential.

cheers,
Serge