discuss: Thread: Idea for new complete Linux documentation

Hi, about four years ago I was a newbie in desperate need of a good guide on Linux. I could not find a free guide online or in the repos that was intended for someone who wanted more then the absolute basics (I was not to good at scouring the web back then.) I started to write a guide partly because I could not find any good one and the other part because I wanted to remember my what my questions as a newbie were. 
I wrote four versions without making a release each one better then the first. I now consider myself most capable and most advanced in the arts of Linux and programming. I can program in C (I even understand most pointer problems.) I can write python3 but and not to fond of objects. I love awk and am quite good. I am a fair shell script hand and am quite good at compiling and installing software. I've also solved several challenges that several authors have posted online regarding awk and C. In addition amount of docs I've read on Linux is quite vast.
I since the fourth revision have learned about the Linux Documentation project and, desire to confide with you in my desire to create a better intro/guide to Linux.
I have written the four versions with openoffice but I don't like them so I've been searching and I've decided that I will write my guide in either Latex or scribus (yodl I can't find any tutorials for.)

Proposal

Problem: Linux docs are to spread up. The information uncontained and unedited an some quite out dated others very poor and/or unfinished guides.

Hurtles: Obviously, this is no small chore. The beginner often comes to Linux believing some very weird things most of the time. Further, there are several detrimental philosophies that will not function in the Linux communities.

Solution: Gather together as many free docs on various subjects as the author feels fit to write on and update the one in need of updating, rewrite the ones that are in need of rewriting, fill the gaps, and create one united guide and reference for Linux that goes into some depths on the various matters the author feels fit to write about and references other docs which will be redistributed with the guide to form a complete knowledge base for the beginner.



I believe I can do all that I propose and am willing to do all the work and have already set the grounds for the manual and have most of the necessary material mirrored to my hard-drive (I did most of it before I knew about the LDP, I'm not trying to "jump the gun" as the saying goes.)


Siceraly, David

I'm uncertain why I've gotten no response to my thread.
I submitted a brief bio for determining if I have the necessary expertise.
I submitted a proposal too.
I can only guess why and try to resolve whatever problems I can think up.
Perhaps you think my mind is made up?
No, it's not. I would not be asking for your advise and acceptance into the LDP if I already had made up my mind. I actually lose little as the partially completed guides have yet to reach 100 pages, so I lose little time. What learning I've gotten has been to my benefit as well as to others.
Perhaps you feel that you do not want to burst my bubble?
I don't mind, I'm not out to do the impossible, nor am I in it for me.
Consider the pitiable users... even the educated ones suffer from the lack of information regardless of the OS.
Picture, if you will, your a windowz user, your in a 12 by 24 inch container. You grow tired of the cramped, buggy, cold container your in.
You find a thin tunnel out, and behold your in a 12 by 24 light year universe, the birds are singing, the grass sucking up the water, the sun is processing it's contents.
You are gripped by terror, so much to do, so many places to go, so many things to see... What should you do first? Where should you go first?! What should you see first!?! Your not understanding any of this HELLP!!!
Then from behind, a person, whose name is bill, creeps up, there is a whirring motor-type noise, a whoosh, and you back again where you started, panicked of going out ever again.
I realize the previous analogy must be difficult to grasp as you've probably been in the Linux movement for some time. Therefore, consider some actual statements by the users of windowz I know (one per person):

Education       Remark

Highschool      I'm compressing these mp4s [on my Pentium 4] with
                7zip so they will be smaller.
Highschool      It has too much information on the hard disk [5GiB],
                that's why it's taking so long. Delete some files and
                then it will run faster.
Highschool      (X error happened on two laptops when connecting to the
                wireless network.) It must be your laptop, it's old.
College         Don't shutdown the computer!! You will break it!!!
College         (Why is it so slow? I asked.) "It's old."
                she replied. [Actually, she was running way
                to many tasks concurrently.]
College         You can't turn text into a number.

I'm not in it for me, I could just call it quits and throw together several rather poor and out dated manuals and put them in an rpm and ship it, but, as you can see, the users are in need.
As a final note, I ask you, why aren't people lining up to download Linux?
Not enough games you say? Was Linux founded on games? Did the kernel improve because uneducated users started playing games? Are users who are in the Linux community just for games really going to help/learn much?
I can't say for certain, why there are not people lining up to download Linux. However, the more I learn about Linux, the more I like it (who could hate something that's free, both monetary and modifiability (not to mention the excellent design, the backward compatibility, support for almost any, and every: protocol, language (both spoken and programed,) etc, etc, etc,) so, it follows that there must be an information gap.
The only real objection I've seen out there, is the "I don't want to learn it, objection." Though knowledge of truth is an amiable thing, people will not respond well if it is pushed on them. Unfortunately, Linux guides/howtos do little to solve this problem. To often, so much complex information is taught so quickly that it causes even yours truly to become sea sick while sitting on dry land.
The other half of this objection is that grandma-so-and-so is not going to be very likely to switch to Linux because she can't read that fast, so, less is more (pun intended.)
You don't have to know all about frame relay, arp-poisoning, URIs, or even IP addresses to set up a wireless connection and start surfing the web. I advocate giving it to them a little at a time, instead of all at once (not to mention the fact that people will not remember a book's chapter on networking by the time they are through with the part on shell script if you explain everything.)
If you will not respond to me would you PLEASE AT LEAST GIVE ME A THUMBS UP OR DOWN OR SOMETHING!

Thanks, David

You're welcome.\n Sincerely, Mail Daemon\n

I, for one, have not seen any previous posts from you, looking back to April 
(2013).  Maybe you need to resubmit your proposal?

On Wednesday 12 March 2014 12:36:10 pm frank ernest wrote:
> I'm uncertain why I've gotten no response to my thread.
> I submitted a brief bio for determining if I have the necessary expertise.
> I submitted a proposal too.
> I can only guess why and try to resolve whatever problems I can think up.
> Perhaps you think my mind is made up?
> No, it's not. I would not be asking for your advise and acceptance into the
> LDP if I already had made up my mind. I actually lose little as the
> partially completed guides have yet to reach 100 pages, so I lose little
> time. What learning I've gotten has been to my benefit as well as to
> others. Perhaps you feel that you do not want to burst my bubble?
> I don't mind, I'm not out to do the impossible, nor am I in it for me.
> Consider the pitiable users... even the educated ones suffer from the lack
> of information regardless of the OS. Picture, if you will, your a windowz
> user, your in a 12 by 24 inch container. You grow tired of the cramped,
> buggy, cold container your in. You find a thin tunnel out, and behold your
> in a 12 by 24 light year universe, the birds are singing, the grass sucking
> up the water, the sun is processing it's contents. You are gripped by
> terror, so much to do, so many places to go, so many things to see... What
> should you do first? Where should you go first?! What should you see
> first!?! Your not understanding any of this HELLP!!! Then from behind, a
> person, whose name is bill, creeps up, there is a whirring motor-type
> noise, a whoosh, and you back again where you started, panicked of going
> out ever again. I realize the previous analogy must be difficult to grasp
> as you've probably been in the Linux movement for some time. Therefore,
> consider some actual statements by the users of windowz I know (one per
> person):
>
> Education       Remark
>
> Highschool      I'm compressing these mp4s [on my Pentium 4] with
>                 7zip so they will be smaller.
> Highschool      It has too much information on the hard disk [5GiB],
>                 that's why it's taking so long. Delete some files and
>                 then it will run faster.
> Highschool      (X error happened on two laptops when connecting to the
>                 wireless network.) It must be your laptop, it's old.
> College         Don't shutdown the computer!! You will break it!!!
> College         (Why is it so slow? I asked.) "It's old."
>                 she replied. [Actually, she was running way
>                 to many tasks concurrently.]
> College         You can't turn text into a number.
>
> I'm not in it for me, I could just call it quits and throw together several
> rather poor and out dated manuals and put them in an rpm and ship it, but,
> as you can see, the users are in need. As a final note, I ask you, why
> aren't people lining up to download Linux? Not enough games you say? Was
> Linux founded on games? Did the kernel improve because uneducated users
> started playing games? Are users who are in the Linux community just for
> games really going to help/learn much? I can't say for certain, why there
> are not people lining up to download Linux. However, the more I learn about
> Linux, the more I like it (who could hate something that's free, both
> monetary and modifiability (not to mention the excellent design, the
> backward compatibility, support for almost any, and every: protocol,
> language (both spoken and programed,) etc, etc, etc,) so, it follows that
> there must be an information gap. The only real objection I've seen out
> there, is the "I don't want to learn it, objection." Though knowledge of
> truth is an amiable thing, people will not respond well if it is pushed on
> them. Unfortunately, Linux guides/howtos do little to solve this problem.
> To often, so much complex information is taught so quickly that it causes
> even yours truly to become sea sick while sitting on dry land. The other
> half of this objection is that grandma-so-and-so is not going to be very
> likely to switch to Linux because she can't read that fast, so, less is
> more (pun intended.) You don't have to know all about frame relay,
> arp-poisoning, URIs, or even IP addresses to set up a wireless connection
> and start surfing the web. I advocate giving it to them a little at a time,
> instead of all at once (not to mention the fact that people will not
> remember a book's chapter on networking by the time they are through with
> the part on shell script if you explain everything.) If you will not
> respond to me would you PLEASE AT LEAST GIVE ME A THUMBS UP OR DOWN OR
> SOMETHING!
>
> Thanks, David
>
> You're welcome.\n Sincerely, Mail Daemon\n
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/

>> College         (Why is it so slow? I asked.) "It's old."
>>                 she replied. [Actually, she was running way
>>                 to many tasks concurrently.]


Hold those thoughts.

--- Snip ---
"Why is it slow", I asked.
"It's old", she replied.

Possible contributing factor, "She was running way too many tasks concurrently."
--- Snip ---

Personally under those particular circumstances, it all sounds pretty normal to me!

On 12/03/14 16:36, frank ernest wrote:

> I'm uncertain why I've gotten no response to my thread.

Well, you may be trying to be frank, and you may be trying to be 
earnest; but your letter comes over to me as the work of a troll trying 
to start a fight of some kind.

There are pitifully few writers working for The Linux Documentation 
Project; and the publishing model being used is hopelessly out of date.

But still we struggle on.
So I suggest you develop your own publishing model; put your offering 
out there your own way; and see what happens to it.

One thing, however, is certain.  You are NOT going to achieve instant, 
world-wide, acclaim as a tech. writer by bitching on this list.

Regards,
-- 
Martin Wheeler
mwheeler @ startext.co.uk

On 2014/3/13 11:14 AM, Martin Wheeler (StarTEXT) wrote:
> On 12/03/14 16:36, frank ernest wrote:
> 
>> I'm uncertain why I've gotten no response to my thread.

Well, Frank, now that you've gotten a response, how do you like it?

On 2014/3/13 11:14 AM, Martin Wheeler (StarTEXT) wrote:
-snip-
> There are pitifully few writers working for The Linux Documentation 
> Project; and the publishing model being used is hopelessly out of 
> date.

Gee, why would that be?

> But still we struggle on. So I suggest you develop your own 
> publishing model;

Yeah, I got one to those around here somewhere...

> put your offering out there your own way;

I like to project my offerings on the bottom of cloud banks, Bat Man-style.

> and see what happens to it.

Uh, oh. I think it's going to rain.

> One thing, however, is certain.

Death & taxes?

> You are NOT going to achieve instant, world-wide, acclaim as a tech.
> writer by bitching on this list.

Oh, that again. <sigh>

On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:36 PM, frank ernest wrote:
> To often, so much complex information is taught so quickly that it causes even yours truly to become sea sick while sitting on dry land.

Concise and clear words
Relay the message better
On lists, doubly so

> On Fri, Mar 14, 2014 at 08:02:55AM +0200, Wesley Werner wrote:
>On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:36 PM, frank ernest wrote:
>> To often, so much complex information is taught so quickly that it causes even yours truly to become sea sick while sitting on dry land.
>
>Concise and clear words
>Relay the message better
>On lists, doubly so


Keep On' a Crack'n!

>Well, you may be trying to be frank, and you may be trying to be 
>earnest; but your letter comes over to me as the work of a troll trying 
>to start a fight of some kind.

I'm neither frank nor ernest, the first rule of security is to feed the computer false information (but not the person on the other end of the email.) If somebody steals a fake name and social security number, what use is it? I'm no troll either (still I can't think of any reason, off the top of my head, why you should believe that,) if I have been impolite or something please alert me and I'll repent.

>There are pitifully few writers working for The Linux Documentation 
>Project; and the publishing model being used is hopelessly out of date.
>
>But still we struggle on.
>So I suggest you develop your own publishing model; put your offering 
>out there your own way; and see what happens to it.

I'm sorry to hear this.

>One thing, however, is certain.  You are NOT going to achieve instant, 
>world-wide, acclaim as a tech. writer by bitching on this list.

I'm not trying to achieve high acclaim, read my post. Is there conceit within? (I'm offering my work GPL/GDFL, no room for money making either.)
I'm trying hard not to b**** either.
I was acctually hoping for some advice, but you are unwilling to give any, and hanging around will apparently only get me in trouble sooner or later.
I'm sorry to have bothered you.
I know so many people around where I live that are most enthusiastic to share their wisdom (there are no good book writers though,) it's sad to meet somebody (especially here of all places!) that assumes your an evil creature (when you volenteer to help of all things.)
A final question, if I do succeed in creating a manual and I dare to deem it worthy of being accociated with the great Linux operating system (read reverance NOT making fun,) would you be so kind as to review it should I post a link?

Thank you for your time/trouble, David

Le 21/03/2014 20:16, frank ernest a écrit :

> A final question, if I do succeed in creating a manual and I dare to deem
> it worthy of being accociated with the great Linux operating system (read
> reverance NOT making fun,) would you be so kind as to review it should I
> post a link?

a complete manual about linux is probably more than one year work... but you 
can still begin on the wiki. Start from your own page, then add pages at will. 
A link here will allow review

it's always possible to change publication way after.

Use minimal syntax. All the wiki asks for is an empty line between paragraphs, 
all the rest is optional

thanks
jdd



-- 
http://www.dodin.org