discuss: Thread: VirtualWebhosting howto for ur review

Dear all !
please tell me about the process of licensing  the documentation at GNU.

document is attahced kindl read it , feedback is needed.
regards
usman


		
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                         Virtual Webhosting on Linux for support of php+mysql+jsp+servlets


Page 1

INTRODUCTION
------------

Introduction to Virtual Webhosting
---------------------------------

Virtual webhosting allows u to run multiple websites even on a single ip(name based hosting) or different ip per
website(ip based hosting) with only one instance of webserver running on your machine.
we will use the name based hosting method.


Disclaimer
----------

Neither the author nor the distributors, or any other contributor of this HOWTO are in any way responsible for physical, financial, moral or any other type of damage incurred by following the suggestions in this text.


Feedback and corrections
------------------------
u r welcome to write at ####@####.####



Contents
--------

This howto covers following topics


1.Partitioning scheme
2.apache2
3.mysql4.3
4.php5
5.proftpd
6.tomcat4.1
7.mod_jk2
8.configuration in apache
9.Disk quota
10.adding a domain
11.mysql quota
12.what user need to do

---------------------------------------------------

Page 2
-------


1.Installation and Partition Scheme


u must use multiple partitions for some purposes.

for limiting each purpose a specific limit of space.

following mount points must be on separate partitions

/home so that users data may remain in a limit and dont eat up all available space.
/var/log so that logging dont use all space.
mysql data directory, same reason.
/tmp so that we can use "noexec" mount option on it.


A Sample Partition Scheme and mount options.

we will use this shceme in our howto

"mount" output

/dev/sda1 on /           type  ext3    (rw)
/dev/sdb1 on /var/log    type  ext3    (rw,noexec)
/dev/sdb2 on /tmp        type  tmpfs   (rw,noexec)
/dev/sdb3 on /mysqldata  type  ext3    (rw,noexec)
/dev/sdc1 on /home       type  ext3    (rw,noexec,usrquota)

"df -h" output

Filesystem            Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1             7.4G  2.3G  4.8G  32% /
none                  252M     0  252M   0% /dev/shm
/dev/sdb1             966M   22M  895M   3% /var/log
/dev/sdb2             252M  4.2M  248M   2% /tmp
/dev/sdb3             7.1G   55M  6.7G   1% /mysqldata
/dev/sdc1             8.4G  185M  7.8G   3% /home


Why use Noexec?
--------------
So that if an intruder breaks in he cant run his binaries from ur machine,unless he have root access

whay use usequota on /home?
---------------------------
To apply diskquotas and specify certain user a certain limit.



output of /etc/fstab

/dev/sda1               /                       ext3    defaults        1 1
none                    /dev/pts                devpts  gid=5,mode=620  0 0
none                    /proc                   proc    defaults        0 0
none                    /dev/shm                tmpfs   defaults        0 0
/dev/sda2               swap                    swap    defaults        0 0
/dev/cdrom              /mnt/cdrom              udf,iso9660 noauto,owner,kudzu,ro 0 0
/dev/sdb1               /var/log                ext3    defaults,noexec   0 1
/dev/sdb2               /tmp                    tmpfs   defaults,noexec   0 1
/dev/sdb3               /mysqldata              ext3    defaults,noexec   0 1
/dev/sdc1               /home                   ext3    defaults,usrquota,noexec       0 1




----------------------



Page 3
------------


2.Apache 2.0.52

download apache untar it. and then


./configure --enable-so 
make
make install

-----------------------------





page 4

------------------------------


3.Mysql 4.1.8


untar mysql then cd into it.

./configure
make
make install

mysql will be installed in /usr/local/

create a user and group to run mysql with

groupadd mysql 
useradd -g mysql -s /sbin/nologin -d /mysqldata mysql

mkdir /mysqldata/data

chown -R mysql:mysql /mysqldata
chmod -R 750 /mysqldata


create /etc/my.cnf

--------
[mysqld]
datadir=/mysqldata/data
socket=/tmp/mysql.sock
     
[mysql.server]
user=mysql
basedir=/mysqldata

[safe_mysqld]
err-log=/var/log/mysqld.log
pid-file=/var/run/mysqld/mysqld.pid
----------

to install mysql databases.

su mysql

/usr/local/bin/mysql_install_db

(as root ) to run it as user mysql.

/usr/local/bin/mysqld_safe & 


mysqldadmin -u root -p "securepassword"


------------------------------


page 5
------


4.Php 5.0.3

options to compile with.


./configure --with-apxs2=/usr/local/apache2/bin/apxs --with-mysql=/usr/local --with-safe-mode

make
make install

cp php.ini-recomended /usr/local/lib/php.ini


important changes in php.ini

------------
register_globals = Off
safe_mode = On
safe_mode_gid = On
expose_php = Off
--------------


------------------------------



page 6
------



5.Proftpd 1.2.10

untar it 

./configure --with-modules=mod_radius  --enable-auth-pam
make
make install


For security reasons 

add all system users in /etc/ftpusers so they cant login, yup and cretainly root.


important changes in config file /usrr/local/etc/proftpd.conf

-------------
ServerName		" your ftp server"
User				nobody
Group				nobody



#to configure chroot jail for users in their home dir.

DefaultRoot ~

DeferWelcome			on


#to disable anonymous login,comment these lines or delete them.

#<Anonymous ~ftp>
#  User				ftp
#  Group			ftp

  # We want clients to be able to login with "anonymous" as well as "ftp"
 # UserAlias			anonymous ftp

  # Limit the maximum number of anonymous logins
  #MaxClients			10

  # We want 'welcome.msg' displayed at login, and '.message' displayed
  # in each newly chdired directory.
  #DisplayLogin			welcome.msg
  #DisplayFirstChdir		.message

  # Limit WRITE everywhere in the anonymous chroot
  #<Limit WRITE>
  #  DenyAll
  #</Limit>
#</Anonymous>


TransferLog          		/var/log/proftpd.xferlog
identLookups        		off

# to prevent from DOS state.
MaxClientsPerHost	        6
SystemLog			/var/log/proftpd.system.log
timeoutlogin                    80
timeoutidle                    3000 
timeoutstalled                 3600

#to reduce load
maxclients                     15

#uncomment these to enable auth from radius if u desire.

#RadiusEngine on
#PersistentPasswd off
#RadiusAuthServer yourradiusserver:1812 test 
#RadiusLog /var/log/ftprad.log
----------------

-------------------------

page 7
------

6.Tomcat4.1.31

For Tomcat we need JDK or JVM.

download it from http://java.sun.com

i used jdk1.4

chmod 755 j2sdk-1_4_2_06-linux-i586.bin

execute it 

./j2sdk-1_4_2_06-linux-i586.bin

u will get a Directory having name j2sdk1.4.2_06

mv j2sdk1.4.2_06 /jdk

in /etc/profile

add these 2 lines


JAVA_HOME=/jdk
export JAVA_HOME


now Install Tomcat, I used Tomcat 4.1.31 because the latest version of mod_jk2 supports upto tomcat4.1.
so we cant use tomcat 5.


download the binaries from http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/index.html

untar it.

rename it to tomcat
mv it to /usr/local/

 to start

/usr/local/tomcat/bin/catalina.sh start

  to stop

/usr/local/tomcat/bin/catalina.sh stop




---------------------

page 8
------


7.mod_jk2 2.0.4
-----------

Q.what is mod_jk2?

A.mod_jk2 is a connector for Apache to communicate with tomcat.

Q.Why we need this connector?

A. We need this for apache to forward all java servlets and jsp pages requests to tomcat.because apache
will only use it to only handle html,cgi,php requests.
 

download its source from 

http://jakarta.apache.org/tomcat/tomcat-4.1-doc/jk2/index.html

untar it. 

cd jakarta-tomcat-connectors-jk2-2.0.4-src

./configure --with-apche=/path/to/apache/source/dir

make

cd build/jk2/apache2/usr/local/apache2/modules/

cp * /usr/lcoal/apache2/modules



now we need to create a worker.properties file, put it in /usr/local/apache2/conf

[shm]
file=/var/logs/tomcatconnector.log
size=1048576

# socket channel
[channel.socket:localhost:8009]
port=8009
host=127.0.0.1

# worker for the connector
[ajp13:localhost:8009]
channel=channel.socket:localhost:8009


------------------------------







page 9
--------


8.Adding modules and configs in Apache
-------------------------------------


now its time to make changes in /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf


-------------

#we are removing option "indexes" from list of options so that user can see a directory content if there is no index file there

<Directory />
    Options FollowSymLinks
    AllowOverride None
</Directory>


#it is to load modules from modules directory bydefault its /usr/local/apache2/modules

LoadModule php5_module        modules/libphp5.so
LoadModule jk2_module         modules/mod_jk2.so

<IfModule jk2_module.c>

JkWorkersFile /etc/httpd/conf/workers2.properties
</IfModule>


AddType application/x-httpd-php .php .phtml

#so that a user can use index.php and index.jsp as index pages.

DirectoryIndex index.php index.html index.htm default.html default.htm index.jsp

#just for security conscious people , however u dont need it if u r using "AllowOverride None"

AccessFileName .blah129

# to enable name based virtual hosting

NameVirtualHost *


-------------------------------------------
 

Page 10
------


9.DiskQuotas

make sure u have quota-tools installed and have quota support in kernel.

for details see quota-howto


------------------------------------------------



page 11
-------


10.Adding a Domain
------------------


NOTE:- Dont forget to do appropriate dns entries in our dns servers
for foo.com and www.foo.com.



Adding a Sample Domain with foo.com and 100 mb web space.

useradd -s /sbin/nologin -g nobdoy foo

set the password for foo to login via ftp (only if u r not using any other auth mechanism).

passwd foo 

apply disk quota

setquota -u foo 102400 102400 0 0 /home

open /usr/local/tomcat/conf/server.xml 

and add these lines before 


   </Engine>

  </Service>

</Server>


lines are 


<Host appBase="/" name="foo.com">
<Logger className="org.apache.catalina.logger.FileLogger" suffix=".txt" prefix="foo.com" timestamp="true"/>
<Context path="" docBase="/home/foo/" debug="0" crossContext="true" privileged="true"/>
<Context path="/servlet" docBase="/home/foo/servlet" debug="0" crossContext="true" privileged="true"/>
<Alias>www.foo.com</Alias>
</HOST>


mkdir -p /home/foo.com/servlet/WEB-INF/classes
mkdir /home/foo.com/servlet/WEB-INF/lib

put a testing servlet with name YourServlet.class in /home/foo.com/servlet/WEB-INF/classes

create a web.xml in /home/foo.com/servlet/WEB-INF/

like

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="ISO-8859-1"?>
<!DOCTYPE web-app PUBLIC "-//Sun Microsystems, Inc.//DTD Web Application 2.3//EN" "http://java.sun.com/dtd/web-app_2_3.dtd">

<web-app>
<servlet>
    <servlet-name>YourServlet</servlet-name>
    <servlet-class>YourServlet</servlet-class>
</servlet>
<servlet-mapping>
    <servlet-name>YourServlet</servlet-name>
    <url-pattern>/</url-pattern>
</servlet-mapping>
</web-app>




cp /usr/local/tomcat/webapps/examples/WEB-INF/LocalStrings.properties /home/foo/servlet/WEB-INF/classes


put a index.jsp in /home/foo



at end in /usr/local/apache2/conf/httpd.conf

#a sample domain entry

<VirtualHost *>
    ServerAdmin ####@####.####
    DocumentRoot /home/foo
    ServerName  foo.com
    ServerAlias www.foo.com
<Directory "/home/foo">
    AllowOverride None
    Order allow,deny
    Allow from all
</Directory>

<Location "/*.jsp">
JkUriSet worker ajp13:localhost:8009
</Location>
<Location "/servlet/*">
JkUriSet worker ajp13:localhost:8009
</Location>
</VirtualHost>


now restart apache 
apachectl restart

retstart tomcat 

catalina.sh stop

catalina.sh start



put website data in /home/foo add servlets class files in /home/foo/servlet/WEB-INF/classes
or jar files in /home/foo/servlet/WEB-INF/lib

feel free to put *.jsp files anywhere

dont forget to restart tomcat when u modify servlets.

add a mysql database with name foo.

/usr/local/bin/mysqladmin create foo -u root -pyourpassword

/usr/local/bin/mysql -u root -pyourpassword
->create database foo;
->grant all on foo.* to foo identified by 'somepass';

this will give him mysql access and he can connect from any anywhere.

------------------------------------------------------


Page 12


11.Mysql Quota
---------------


Mysql hasnt any database quota support, so we need to do a tricky thing.

when u are adding a user add the user name in a file.if u have different packages for hosting create different files 
for specific packages. write a perl script which will check if the user has used more space than specified in package
it will make the database directory read only.
when u create a database in mysql, it creates a directory for it, where every thing of database is stored.
like for foo there is a directory in 

/mysqldata/data/foo





a sample script, we have 3 files for 3 different packages in /etc/hosting.
make sure u se crontab to run it several times in a day.


#!/usr/bin/perl

`/bin/chmod -R 755 /home`;
`/bin/chmod -R 750 /mysqldata`;

$fdir="/etc/hosting";

$package1limit=100;
$package2limit=200;
$package3limit=30;


$package1f="$fdir/package1";
$package2f="$fdir/package2";
$package3f="$fdir/package3";

open (P1, "$package1f");
open (P2, "$package2f");
open (P3, "$package3f");

@package1users=<P1>;
@package2users=<P2>;
@package3users=<P3>;

 foreach $i (@package1users) {
 $size=`du -sm /mysqldata/data/$i`;     
 $size=substr($size,0,4);
 $size++;
 $size--; 
if ($size > $package1limit) { `chmod -R 550 /mysqldata/data/$i` };
 }

 foreach $i (@package2users) {
 $size=`du -sm /mysqldata/data/$i`;     
 $size=substr($size,0,4);
 $size++;
 $size--; 
 if ($size > $package2limit) { `chmod -R 550 /mysqldata/data/$i` };
 }

 foreach $i (@package3users) {
 $size=`du -sm /mysqldata/data/$i`;     
 $size=substr($size,0,4);
 $size++;
 $size--; 
 if ($size > $package3limit) { `chmod -R 550 /mysqldata/data/$i` };
 }

close(P1);
close(P2);
close(P3);


-------------------------------------

page 13
------


12.What user need to do


now user can use any ftp client to put data on your server and modify it.
however for servlets, guide users to modify web.xml or write a script which will automatically update the web.xml as new servlets found in 
classes folder.

i will write it soon for u.



Author

Muhammad Usman
####@####.####
####@####.####

On Sat, Jan 22, 2005 at 10:02:41PM -0800, muhammad usman wrote:
> Dear all !
> please tell me about the process of licensing  the documentation at GNU.
> 
> document is attahced kindl read it , feedback is needed.
> regards

ur use of short words like ur, doesn't seem to exist in other LDP docs
and I don't think it should start now.  

I've just looked at the first couple of screens and realize that you
haven't explained it very well.  The WWW-HOWTO (1999) by Poet explains
things better, but it's out-of-date and I suspect that not really much
of it is by Poet as there were original authors.

You explain the installation/configuring of packages, but don't the
distributions do all this automatically?  What about not using Virtual
Hosting, but giving many people websites, each on it's own directory?
Like mine: www.lafn.org/~dave.

Anyway, I think what you wrote needs a lot of work before the LDP can
accept it.
[snip]
			David Lawyer

On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 19:48 -0800, David Lawyer wrote:
> ur use of short words like ur, doesn't seem to exist in other LDP docs
> and I don't think it should start now.  
> 
> I've just looked at the first couple of screens and realize that you
> haven't explained it very well.

Good Christ!

And then people wonder why LDP is getting fewer authors and fewer
documents?

<flame>

While the document submitted in this case clearly does need a great deal
of work by its author, it's at least clear that this is a person with
some knowledge and a lot of interest and enthusiasm, who has put in some
time and effort to try to help others. So do we give him a useful
critique? No, we tell him his work sucks and slam him hard. Note that
the poor sod didn't even have the heart/guts to respond, or didn't feel
it was worth his time.

This kind of behavior is very sadly all-too-common around here. It
*WILL* drive people away, both outside authors and internal volunteers
and contributors. I, personally, am starting to question whether I
should be devoting any time at all to this effort, there being so many
other worthy efforts on this Earth who don't act like assholes.

Of course I do not mean to criticize or insult the many people I've
grown to respect and appreciate here. Tille, Emma, Guylhem, Martin are
just a few of the names now permanently etched into my Good List.
However, all their efforts will be for naught if LDP's success is
sabotaged and undermined by the intolerant, arrogant, and abusive
behavior of a few.

Damn it.

</flame>

-- 
Rodolfo J. Paiz ####@####.####

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


On Wed, 26 Jan 2005, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:

> Good Christ!
>
> And then people wonder why LDP is getting fewer authors and fewer
> documents?
>
> <flame>

While I completely agree with you, Rodolpho, flaming is not the solution.
It might relieve you, but by sending this out in public, you are no better
than those who look down their noses onto new authros who need help with
style and grammar, pardon me saying so.  I know you have the best
intentions, but this does not solve anything.  I did not want to react to
David's mail, because I would have written something similar...

For everybody: before you hit that SEND button/key, try to consider how
you would feel if you were at the receiving end of the message you are
about to roll into the world.  Also try to think about people who read
your message, but are not directly addressed.
Try not to act on impulse.  If you are angree or upset about something, it
is always better to save the message until next day and re-read it.  In
most cases, you will see where you have been too rude or off-topic, and
you will give yourself time not to act on an impuls.  Especially here in
this environment where we never have any deadlines, this is worth a try.
If Muhammad would have gotten your remarks a day later, he would still
have been glad with any constructive information.

I hope that you can all look into your own hearts and see which part of
this is appropriate for you,

Tille.

- --
My Penguin, my freedom.		http://tille.xalasys.com

Intro to Linux?  Bash for beginners?
Buy my books at fultus.com, amazon.com, amazon.co.uk or barnesandnoble.com!
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David Lawyer ####@####.#### wrote:
ur use of short words like ur, doesn't seem to exist in other LDP docs
and I don't think it should start now. 


thats not a dig deal, i will do it.


I've just looked at the first couple of screens and realize that you
haven't explained it very well. The WWW-HOWTO (1999) by Poet explains
things better, but it's out-of-date and I suspect that not really much
of it is by Poet as there were original authors.

its very sad that u only looked at couple of screens, u must read all howto.



You explain the installation/configuring of packages, but don't the
distributions do all this automatically?

well some distrubutions have tomcat and mod_jk2 installed by default but who knows that with which options packages are compiled?? as i want to explain all partition structure in detail like mysql data is on sepate partition so installation matters.and some distribution havent packages of tomcat,mod_jk2 like slackware or what about LFS users?? 

 What about not using Virtual
Hosting, but giving many people websites, each on it's own directory?
Like mine: www.lafn.org/~dave.


i havent done this but apache.org docs covers this, so i think no need of it . the thing which i am writing is much better and beleive me there isnt any howto available till now which covers these all things.

Anyway, I think what you wrote needs a lot of work before the LDP can
accept it.
[snip]
David Lawyer


i am ready to improve, i will send u howto again, i will try to make it more user friendly.


regards

muhammad usman


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 16:10 +0000, Machtelt Garrels wrote:
> While I completely agree with you, Rodolpho, flaming is not the solution.
> It might relieve you, but by sending this out in public, you are no better

I don't claim to be any better. I just have different beliefs and views
than some other people do, which is why I argue or contest an issue
sometimes.

I really shouldn't have tagged that message as a flame. It was not an
impulse reaction (hell, it's been four days since David's note to
Muhammad) but rather a very strongly-worded note intended to provoke in
its readers at least a little thought if not perhaps some constructive
discussion, self-examination, and philosophical musings on the type of
community LDP wants to be. (I've quit using "we" for the moment.)

I was in no way seeking relief from frustration, but rather expressing a
condemnation of an attitude which is IN EVERY CASE destructive to the
organization in whose context it is expressed.

My dear Tille, you have my apologies if my choice of words is at times
stronger (and less civilized) than you would prefer. Certainly it is not
my only means of expression, but occasionally a chosen form of very
strong emphasis. I won't promise to change, and hopefully I won't bother
you too much.

> For everybody: before you hit that SEND button/key, try to consider how
> you would feel if you were at the receiving end of the message you are
> about to roll into the world.  Also try to think about people who read
> your message, but are not directly addressed.

I did! <grin>

Cheers,

-- 
Rodolfo J. Paiz ####@####.####

On Wed, 2005-01-26 at 12:32 -0800, muhammad usman wrote:
> i am ready to improve, i will send u howto again, i will 
> try to make it more user friendly.
> 

Muhammad,

I have unfortunately not made the time yet to read through the HOWTO
carefully. However, allow me to make some initial suggestions:

	1. Your English appears to be good enough for communication, but your
spelling, grammar, and punctuation are not ideal for publishing a
written document intended to help and educate your readers. This is not
a big hurdle or a major obstacle... just do try to run the document
through a spell checker, try to be careful of the details, and try to
get someone else to proofread it and look for mistakes. LDP always does
a language review when a document is ready for submission anyway, so one
or two of us will eventually do a full review for you. Always strive for
the most correct, scholarly English text possible; just as you would in
your native language.

	2. Many, if not most or all, Linux distributions supply Apache and the
rest of the software you suggest to their users. Although they do use
different compile-time options and different packaging formats, in fact
they do at least provide that software. So I would suggest that you move
compilation information to appendices at the end of the document (e.g.
"Appendix A: Apache") and then suggest to the reader that if following
your instructions on their pre-supplied Apache doesn't work, that they
then consult your Appendix for how to get, compile, and use their own
Apache from source. But don't start off suggesting that *everyone*
compile packages... that simply is not representative of the majority of
users nowadays.

	3. Don't be *too* specific... "MySQL 4.1.8" will surely be out of date
in a month! Note that there are many possible databases your readers
could use. Then specifically mention two or three of them (say,
PostgreSQL and MySQL) and give URL's for where they can be found.
Finally, suggest that you prefer MySQL and that you will use it for this
HOWTO. The user can then use his/her prebuilt MySQL (whatever came with
the distro) and start off with the instructions immediately, see your
"Appendix B: MySQL" for compilation instructions, or adapt to his/her
preferred database independently.

	4. On a personal note, I feel that the HOWTO will lose most of its
usefulness unless the reader uses *EXACTLY* the packages and versions
you used. The instructions are just too specific. Heck, even the
download links are version- and file-specific! I suggest you provide a
little more explanation of *what* each task is meant to accomplish,
*why* that task is important, and *how* the task is accomplished. Then,
the details and commands you show will support the lesson you teach
instead of being the entire lesson in and of themselves. Remember, you
don't want users to just blindly type in what you tell them... you want
them to learn a little bit about what they are doing and why.

Hope this is useful to you.

Cheers,

-- 
Rodolfo J. Paiz ####@####.####

On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 09:38:18AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 19:48 -0800, David Lawyer wrote:
> > ur use of short words like ur, doesn't seem to exist in other LDP docs
> > and I don't think it should start now.  
> > 
> > I've just looked at the first couple of screens and realize that you
> > haven't explained it very well.
> 
> Good Christ!
> 
> And then people wonder why LDP is getting fewer authors and fewer
> documents?
> 
> <flame>
> 
> While the document submitted in this case clearly does need a great deal
> of work by its author, it's at least clear that this is a person with
> some knowledge and a lot of interest and enthusiasm, who has put in some
> time and effort to try to help others. So do we give him a useful
> critique? No, we tell him his work sucks and slam him hard. Note that
> the poor sod didn't even have the heart/guts to respond, or didn't feel
> it was worth his time.
> 
> This kind of behavior is very sadly all-too-common around here. It
> *WILL* drive people away, both outside authors and internal volunteers
> and contributors. I, personally, am starting to question whether I
> should be devoting any time at all to this effort, there being so many
> other worthy efforts on this Earth who don't act like assholes.
> 
> Of course I do not mean to criticize or insult the many people I've
> grown to respect and appreciate here. Tille, Emma, Guylhem, Martin are
> just a few of the names now permanently etched into my Good List.
> However, all their efforts will be for naught if LDP's success is
> sabotaged and undermined by the intolerant, arrogant, and abusive
> behavior of a few.
> 
> Damn it.
> 
> </flame>
> 
> -- 
> Rodolfo J. Paiz ####@####.####

I wrote exactly what I thought and what was the truth.  But I wrote this
8 years ago and didn't have time to follow the thread and never knew I
was "flamed" until now, 8 years later.  I think that if one tries to be
tactful, then in some cases, the criticism  may be even resented more than
if one just simply and frankly states what's wrong.

This thread continues with me being out of it, and concludes with the
new author agreeing to revise his doc per my critique and then finishes
with a long (and tactful) email by Paiz pointing out other flaws and how
to correct them.  It seems that the new author never did get his work
fixed or published.  What was wrong here was much ado about almost
nothing.

And another thing wrong is that I probably should have just let sleeping
dogs lie.  But it does show the advantages of having individual authors
instead of a wiki: one knows to whom to direct complements and
criticisms.  A wiki may have many mistakes and it takes some checking to
find out who made them.
 
			David Lawyer

Le 16/07/2013 09:10, David Lawyer a écrit :

> criticisms.  A wiki may have many mistakes and it takes some checking to
> find out who made them.

does it matters :-?

anyway, thank to make this list living a bit more :-)

jdd


-- 
http://www.dodin.org

David,

Your knowledge and stolid responses come off as harsh. Perhaps it is
also the emotions of the reader that effects te thread? :) We have all
experienced the "David!"

As for the Wiki, knowledge is power. Despite the errors, better
information will come and correct it. There are so many distributions,
no true "vanilla" Linux distribution exist, so it is hard to make any
howto for just any one reader. It is just a guide after all - a
starting point.

I agree with JD, the thread should live on.

V/R,

Paul Hendricksen

Excuse all typos and spelling errors, this is sent from my mobile.

On Jul 16, 2013, at 1:10, David Lawyer ####@####.#### wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 26, 2005 at 09:38:18AM -0600, Rodolfo J. Paiz wrote:
>> On Sun, 2005-01-23 at 19:48 -0800, David Lawyer wrote:
>>> ur use of short words like ur, doesn't seem to exist in other LDP docs
>>> and I don't think it should start now.
>>>
>>> I've just looked at the first couple of screens and realize that you
>>> haven't explained it very well.
>>
>> Good Christ!
>>
>> And then people wonder why LDP is getting fewer authors and fewer
>> documents?
>>
>> <flame>
>>
>> While the document submitted in this case clearly does need a great deal
>> of work by its author, it's at least clear that this is a person with
>> some knowledge and a lot of interest and enthusiasm, who has put in some
>> time and effort to try to help others. So do we give him a useful
>> critique? No, we tell him his work sucks and slam him hard. Note that
>> the poor sod didn't even have the heart/guts to respond, or didn't feel
>> it was worth his time.
>>
>> This kind of behavior is very sadly all-too-common around here. It
>> *WILL* drive people away, both outside authors and internal volunteers
>> and contributors. I, personally, am starting to question whether I
>> should be devoting any time at all to this effort, there being so many
>> other worthy efforts on this Earth who don't act like assholes.
>>
>> Of course I do not mean to criticize or insult the many people I've
>> grown to respect and appreciate here. Tille, Emma, Guylhem, Martin are
>> just a few of the names now permanently etched into my Good List.
>> However, all their efforts will be for naught if LDP's success is
>> sabotaged and undermined by the intolerant, arrogant, and abusive
>> behavior of a few.
>>
>> Damn it.
>>
>> </flame>
>>
>> --
>> Rodolfo J. Paiz ####@####.####
>
> I wrote exactly what I thought and what was the truth.  But I wrote this
> 8 years ago and didn't have time to follow the thread and never knew I
> was "flamed" until now, 8 years later.  I think that if one tries to be
> tactful, then in some cases, the criticism  may be even resented more than
> if one just simply and frankly states what's wrong.
>
> This thread continues with me being out of it, and concludes with the
> new author agreeing to revise his doc per my critique and then finishes
> with a long (and tactful) email by Paiz pointing out other flaws and how
> to correct them.  It seems that the new author never did get his work
> fixed or published.  What was wrong here was much ado about almost
> nothing.
>
> And another thing wrong is that I probably should have just let sleeping
> dogs lie.  But it does show the advantages of having individual authors
> instead of a wiki: one knows to whom to direct complements and
> criticisms.  A wiki may have many mistakes and it takes some checking to
> find out who made them.
>
>            David Lawyer
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
>