discuss: Thread: Dead link in a HowTo

Hello,
whilst browsing the mirrors I sometimes dip into a howto and came across this 
dead link in the Home-Network-Mini-HowTo.  The target is
http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif 
and the result is 404, file not found.  What is the proper procedure.  Email 
the author?
Cheers
Allister

Mail Lists a écrit :
> Hello,
> whilst browsing the mirrors I sometimes dip into a howto and came across this 
> dead link in the Home-Network-Mini-HowTo.  The target is
> http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif 
> and the result is 404, file not found.  What is the proper procedure.  Email 
> the author?
> Cheers
> Allister

I think it's too early to begin such things, we have to concentrate on
important fixes.

I openned this page

http://wiki.tldp.org/NeedAction

to take note.

I hope soon we will be able to move to the wiki any such problematic HOWTO

But we have yet to exactly list all the HOWTOs (some exists only in
some form, text...). The Page_Status being the central point for this
aspect

thanks
jdd


-- 
jdd for the Linux Documentation Project
http://wiki.tldp.org
http://www.dodin.net

Quoting Mail Lists ####@####.####

> whilst browsing the mirrors I sometimes dip into a howto and came
> across this dead link in the Home-Network-Mini-HowTo.  The target is
> http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif and the result is
> 404, file not found.  What is the proper procedure.  Email the author?

Please do.  Thank you, Alistair.

On Wednesday 12 November 2008 21:31:54 Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Mail Lists ####@####.####
> > whilst browsing the mirrors I sometimes dip into a howto and came
> > across this dead link in the Home-Network-Mini-HowTo.  The target is
> > http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif and the result is
> > 404, file not found.  What is the proper procedure.  Email the author?
>
> Please do.  Thank you, Alistair.

Given the conflicting advice (see reply from jdd above) I will just note it on
http://wiki.tldp.org/NeedAction
for now.
Cheers
Allister

Quoting Mail Lists ####@####.####

> Given the conflicting advice (see reply from jdd above) I will just
> note it on http://wiki.tldp.org/NeedAction for now.

Allister, it's all very well to put a link on a wiki saying that
something "needs work", but isn't it also constructive to let the author
know that his/her document needs to be fixed?  The two actions are not 
mutually exclusive.

That being the case, *I've* now taken the initiative to send that mail.
(See below.)  The replacement URL for the diagram might be of use even
if Mr. Ramsey never bothers to revise his (sadly rather old) HOWTO.


---<being forwarded copy>---


To: Paul Ramsey ####@####.####
Subject: Broken image link in Home Network mini-HOWTO
X-Mas: Bah humbug.

Hi, Mr. Ramsey.  An alert volunteer at the Linux Documentation Project
noticed a broken hyperlink within
http://tldp.org/HOWTO/text/Home-Network-mini-HOWTO :  The link to 
http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif in section 2.1 "With a
Hub" is 404 (file unfound) because you have ceased to have an account at
Coastnet.

If you don't have a copy of the file hosted elsewhere, this is a 
suitable link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20010610220539/http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif

Speaking as a LDP volunteer myself, I'm sure LDP would be delighted to
receive an update of your HOWTO.  (Even though RH6.x is long gone, the
principles you cover still apply.)

On Wednesday 12 November 2008 22:56:18 Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Mail Lists ####@####.####
> > Given the conflicting advice (see reply from jdd above) I will just
> > note it on http://wiki.tldp.org/NeedAction for now.
>
> Allister, it's all very well to put a link on a wiki saying that
> something "needs work", but isn't it also constructive to let the author
> know that his/her document needs to be fixed?  The two actions are not
> mutually exclusive.

Agreed, but as a newbie I thought I would let the oldheads decide what was 
policy before I jumped in. :)
Cheers
Allister

Quoting Mail Lists ####@####.####

> Given the conflicting advice (see reply from jdd above) I will just
> note it on http://wiki.tldp.org/NeedAction for now.

In fact, upon examination, I notice that Mr. Paul Ramsey's Home Network
mini-HOWTO is one of those problem submissions that lacked any explicit
licence.  

To review, this is a serious problem because HOWTO authors did not
implicitly grant any rights to the public beyond the implied right to
LDP and its mirrors to host copies and the public to browse those works.
In particular, there is no automatic grant of rights to create or
distribute derivative works or to use the work for any purpose.  (Those
grants are the precise objective open source licences exist to satisfy.)

Thus, _only_ Mr. Ramsey technically has the legal right to fix the
instance of the Home Network mini-HOWTO hosted at LDP + mirrors, and for
anyone else to _even_ edit

http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif  to
http://web.archive.org/web/20010610220539/http://www.coastnet.com/~pramsey/linux/w_hub.gif

...is technical copyright violation.  (Me, I'd do it anyway.  I mean,
it's not like he's going to sue anyone for tort damages or injunctions
because someone fixed an image link.)


FYI, Mr. Ramsey turns out to be no longer reachable at his e-mail
mailbox of record ####@####.####  550 Mailbox unknown.

This is, of course, hardly surprising in a document about RH 6.x that's
been untouched for eight years.

Rick Moen a écrit :

> This is, of course, hardly surprising in a document about RH 6.x that's
> been untouched for eight years.

thats why we can wait a little and solve all these problem as the same
time in some weeks

the solution is to copy the HOWTO to the wiki in closed form (very
easy with the #format html tag) and add a discussion page with the fix.

We only then have to find a way to copy it to the static collection
with the comments. The best choice, in that case, being to replace it
on the static collection by a link to the wiki and quoting all this as
an "archive" part...

jdd


-- 
jdd for the Linux Documentation Project
http://wiki.tldp.org
http://www.dodin.net

Quoting Jean-Daniel Dodin ####@####.####

> Rick Moen a écrit :
> 
> > This is, of course, hardly surprising in a document about RH 6.x that's
> > been untouched for eight years.
> 
> thats why we can wait a little and solve all these problem as the same
> time in some weeks
> 
> the solution is to copy the HOWTO to the wiki in closed form (very
> easy with the #format html tag) and add a discussion page with the fix.
> 
> We only then have to find a way to copy it to the static collection
> with the comments. 

My apologies:  I guess I should have spoken up about that, earlier,
since I now recall that you've been proposing such a tactic (wiki-based
"comments") to deal with licensing problems.

There's a slightly dangerous grey area to be aware of, here.
Unfortunately, this is one of those areas where there are probably
important legal questions untested by litigation.  That is, what forms
of accompanying "commentary" or addenda to a work constitute derivative
works of the original (using the term "derivative work" as it's used in
copyright law)?

I suspect that merely putting "comments" at the bottom of the page of an
existing work would be ruled to create a derivative, for example, even
if they're in a different colour and typeface.  ;->

The legally paranoid way to treat docs without explicit licensing
remains to keep them not only unaltered but also presented in a manner
that keeps the boundaries of the original documents sharp and clear.  
Something less distinct might end up being ruled safe, or not, but I'm
pretty sure there's not yet relevant caselaw.  Unfortunately, this 
sort of thing happens frequently in technology: debatable issues about
which you'd prefer that someone _else_ be the test case.

(What exactly creates or does not create a derivative work is something
that ultimately only a judge can decide -- and the specific facts of the
situation are always relevant.  For pointers to the ruling case
decisions on the USA and, IIRC, Australia, and thus about what are the 
applicable judicial criteria, please see:
http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Licensing_and_Law/

Rick Moen a écrit :

> I suspect that merely putting "comments" at the bottom of the page of an
> existing work would be ruled to create a derivative, for example, even
> if they're in a different colour and typeface.  ;->

my initial idea was to use an other page (in the wiki, the "discussion
page a la wikipedia), but this is the reason why we should not go too
fast...

jdd


-- 
jdd for the Linux Documentation Project
http://wiki.tldp.org
http://www.dodin.net