discuss: Thread: Manifesto for 2010 (draft01) page

jdd wrote:
> you said that we *do* bad things, not that we shouldn't do them on the
> future. May be you where upset when writing :-).
No, not upset. Just some ambiguity in the phrasing. No worries then.

>> Whereas "HOWTO Install the latest version of Ubuntu" is *highly
>> likely* to be
>> wrong after 6 months or less.
> 
> 1) I don't think we should work on too distro-related things. Ubuntu
> wiki is very good in this respect.
Yes, I just plucked an example to illustrate that some technologies move quickly
- bluetooth is another area where, at one point, a few months made a huge
difference.

> 2) the HOWTO name, if accepted, should be "HOWTO install the Ubuntu 7.10
> on i386 computers"
Absolutely - I deliberately chose a bad name.

>> It seems to me (from my experience) that LDP would rather continue to
>> publish
>> misleading information than remove something from the 'current' list of
>> documents if it does not 'own' the more accurate and up-to-date
>> information.

I wasn't clear here. This is a description of "how it used to be" from my
viewpoint; not 'now'.


>> Like this:
>>   http://wiki.tldp.org/Software_RAID_HOWTO
>> (Check the date)
> 
> exactly. I have to read it, I just installed a software raid, without
> any use of doc... (openSUSE 11 - old hobby machine)
> 
> now we have to move the old HOWTO to "obsolete" or "archive" and store
> the new page ont the HOWTO static list.
Please :)

> However, right now, I don't know how this can be done. I hope it will be
> documented on the wiki soon :-)
OK. I prod the staff list every couple of months. Hopefully infrequently enough
so as not to be (too) annoying but often enough that it may eventually get done.

> just a last note: may be your initial mail (6? month ago?) was the
> trigger of the LDP restart. thanks, but acknowledge this and don't blame
> us now (us= me, but also you and many others)
That would be a worthwhile result from an 'interesting' experience.

Anyhow, right now I am really not blaming :)
I am proposing something as one of the guiding principles.

IMHO it is different to the old LDP way.

So, what do you think of including the phrase:
 "spread no misinformation"
into the LDP manifesto (or whatever)?

David

David Greaves a écrit :

> So, what do you think of including the phrase:
>  "spread no misinformation"
> into the LDP manifesto (or whatever)?

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this formulation. we have to write some 
sort of *positive* paragraph about our work ("make acurate doc", for 
example, is much better, but it's not enough)

have to think some time (and reread the old manifesto) :-)

jdd

-- 
http://www.dodin.net
http://valerie.dodin.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-eic8MSSfM

I am completely newbie in this list, so excuse me if I say something silly
now on.

It seems to me that apart from jdd and sergius, there is a fell other people
who get the time-knowledge-skill-will needed to reformulate tldp's ways and
give it some gas. Is there any trustful data on tldp members and volunteers?


If there is not, what would you think of doing some kind of poll to get a
real idea of what we can count on in this process, by asking everyone on the
mailing lists about their skills, free time and will to contribute?

This way I think it would be much easier for jdd to redistribute tasks and
make plans according to what is possible for now.

2008/9/5 jdd ####@####.####

> David Greaves a écrit :
>
>  So, what do you think of including the phrase:
>>  "spread no misinformation"
>> into the LDP manifesto (or whatever)?
>>
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this formulation. we have to write some sort
> of *positive* paragraph about our work ("make acurate doc", for example, is
> much better, but it's not enough)
>
> have to think some time (and reread the old manifesto) :-)
>
>
> jdd
>
> --
> http://www.dodin.net
> http://valerie.dodin.org
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-eic8MSSfM
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
>
>


-- 
André Nunes Batista

http://tagesuhu.wordpress.com/

jdd,

I doubt this is what you're looking for, but it's the only thing I sent to you 
or the tldp.org recently (especially since you mentioned the manifesto).

Randy Kramer
-- 
"I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video 
instead."--with apologies to Cicero, et.al.

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: Re: [discuss] Manifesto for 2010 (draft01) page
Date: Thursday 04 September 2008 02:10 pm
From: Randy Kramer ####@####.####
To: jdd ####@####.#### ####@####.####

On Thursday 04 September 2008 01:42 pm, David Lawyer wrote:
> So what I propose is to revise the current Manifesto to mention the
> wiki.  Should a manifesto, which covers purposes, policies, and to
> some extent governance of an organization be put out as a wiki on the
> internet for anyone to revise?

On many wikis, specific pages can be locked to prevent editing.  Rather than 
see the manifesto put in some other part of the site, away from the wiki, I'd 
recommend leaving it in the wiki and locking it (assuming that can be done in 
MoinMoin).  

For a period of time until the manifesto is agreed upon, it would seem 
appropriate to allow editing.

Randy Kramer a écrit :
> jdd,
> 
> I doubt this is what you're looking for, but it's the only thing I sent to you 
> or the tldp.org recently (especially since you mentioned the manifesto).

thanks, but it was a much longer message I have in mind

by the way, now we can lock pages :-)

jdd
-- 
http://www.dodin.net
http://valerie.dodin.org
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-eic8MSSfM

On Monday 08 September 2008 11:24 am, jdd wrote:
> by the way, now we can lock pages :-)

Good!

Randy Kramer
-- 
"I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I created a video 
instead."--with apologies to Cicero, et.al.

On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 10:33:26PM +0200, jdd wrote:
> David Greaves a ?crit :
>
>> So, what do you think of including the phrase:
>>  "spread no misinformation"

Since Linux is changing the result is HOWTOs that contain misinformation.
There's no way to avoid some misinformation.  Also, LDP often lacked
reviewers and original authors make mistakes.  In fact, one author in
the past intentionally wrote misinformation in some HOWTOs, and this
is even more likely with wikis.  The problem right now is to find
volunteers to go over our collection and determine the status of each
HOWTO or Guide.  Even more important is to find volunteers to revise
them and write new ones.

In the manifesto we could state that LDP should supply high quality
documentation as a goal.  But it should be obvious that LDP wants to
supply high quality and hardly needs stating.  We could state in the
manifesto that more volunteers are needed to help update.  But doing
this admits that we are in trouble and it looks bad but I'm still in
favor of that.  I proposed something like this before but got some
objected that it made the manifesto look too negative so I removed
it.

It was mentioned that discussions of docbook and wikis, etc. were not our
main problem which is stale documentation.  Well, I think a major
reason we didn't get more contributions and documentation became more
stale was the barrier to writing imposed by docbook and by our long
Author Guide.  If we could fix these we will likely get more volunteers
to help writing (and rewrting).  
			David Lawyer

>> into the LDP manifesto (or whatever)?
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this formulation. we have to write some  
> sort of *positive* paragraph about our work ("make accurate doc", for  
> example, is much better, but it's not enough)
>
> have to think some time (and reread the old manifesto) :-)
It's not that LDP wants to spread misinformation.
>
> jdd

On Fri, Sep 05, 2008 at 09:13:49AM +0100, David Greaves wrote:
> David
> 
> PS David, do you mind if I enquire here if my periodic reminders of your
> 'promise' (for want of a better word) been getting through? I've seen no
> response and no action.

I previously posted on the staff list and David Graves has a copy.  No
discussion, no response, and apparently no action taken.  This shows
that we are not functioning well but we already knew this.  I only
think I promised to request that Greave`s request be granted.  I did
but nothing happened.

That's partly because of about 6 persons shown as staff, only about 3
seems to be active: me, Greg Ferguson, and Sergiusz Pawlowicz but we
never seem to have much, if any discussions.  I think it's been years
since there was any policy discussions on the staff list.  What
mostly happens there is that me or Sergiusz request a change in the
website (like say listing a new mirror) and then Greg Ferguson does it
and responds with a short message such as "done".  The archives from this
list are available to the world.  Martin Wheeler is supposedly on
staff but I'm not sure if he's on the staff list.

			David Lawyer

On Sat, Sep 06, 2008 at 02:07:17PM -0300, Andr? Nunes wrote:
> I am completely newbie in this list, so excuse me if I say something silly
> now on.
> 
> It seems to me that apart from jdd and sergius, there is a fell other people
> who get the time-knowledge-skill-will needed to reformulate tldp's ways and
> give it some gas. Is there any trustful data on tldp members and volunteers?

Yes.  See volunteers section on the homepage.  It was up-to-date as of
about a year ago but since then Stein Gjoen, and Marchtelt Garrels are
both pressed for time and don't participate much if any.  And I don't
think that Jones is our contact person at ibiblio anymore.
> 
> If there is not, what would you think of doing some kind of poll to get a
> real idea of what we can count on in this process, by asking everyone on the
> mailing lists about their skills, free time and will to contribute?

This has been done before and in my opinion the time spent doing it
could be better used to actually work on solving our problems.

> This way I think it would be much easier for jdd to redistribute tasks and
> make plans according to what is possible for now.

I think we already are pretty well aware of the situation.  We don't
want to give write access to the LDP site to people we don't know well.

			David Lawyer