discuss: Thread: HowToForge

These arguments are interesting, but maybe not relevant. Can someone say 
how TLDP will differentiate itself from a site like 
http://www.howtoforge.com/ ? What does the former do better, etc, etc?

-Sean.

Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting ####@####.#### ####@####.####
>
>   
>> Change is OKAY guys!
>>     
>
> Excellent!  This is a highly relevant and convincing refutation of the
> entire horde of noisy people who have been stubbornly asserting,
> upthread, that change is evil.  I for one will never listen to those
> misguided people again.
>
> Oh, wait a minute.  Those people would be _nonexistent_, and you're
> posting utter, time-wasting rubbish.   Never mind.
>
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
>
>
>   

-- 
Jesus said to Peter "Who do men say that I am?" Peter said to Jesus "Thou art the eschatological manifestation of the ground of our being." Jesus said to Peter "You what?"

I'll be here the whole week. Tip your waitress. Try the veal. You've been a great audience! Goodnight everybody....

Quoting Sean Peterson ####@####.####

> Can someone say 
> how TLDP will differentiate itself from a site like 
> http://www.howtoforge.com/ ? 

I'm entirely unclear on why it's incumbent on LDP to differentiate
itself from anyone or anything.

However, since you ask, http://www.howtoforge.com/ appears to be a
commercial property of projektfarm GmbH, a corporation in Lueneburg,
Germany that is substantively a one-man operation of Till Brehm, CEO. 
It appears that there at least most, if not all, of the documents hosted
there are under proprietary licensing and also do not bear any inline
version designations.  And, of course, the entire site is
advertising-driven.

Nothing wrong with any of those things, and I appreciate the work of Mr.
Brehm and his various author/contributors.  I merely note the
distinction, in answer to your (rather bizarre) question.

On 07/30/2008 09:22:31 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Sean Peterson ####@####.####
> 
> > Can someone say
> > how TLDP will differentiate itself from a site like
> > http://www.howtoforge.com/ ?

To my mind the LDP distinguishes itself by it's focus
as a collection of redistributable documents.
The LDP has historically focused on being redistributable
in multiple media, as opposed to a strictly
web-connected browser-based access method.

IMO it is far, far, too early to argue that
the browser-over-the-internet access method
is the be-all and end-all of information acquisition
and the LDP should retain it's character as a
collection that's distributable via all kinds
of channels.

> 
> I'm entirely unclear on why it's incumbent on LDP to differentiate
> itself from anyone or anything.

Because if it does not it will be lost in the noise
of the Internet?


Karl ####@####.####
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                  -- Robert A. Heinlein

I agree, there should be a sustainment of the kind of documents kept
here.  But, for those who do not want to bother with DocBook and
simple ease of access, I feel Wiki would be a great solution to a
simple problem.  The more people are able to easily make changes,
access material, and publish their own documents (print, download PDF
versions (perhaps from a PDF dynamic creator perhaps, etc.), and
simply browse with ease the better TLDP will be.  Everyone should know
about TLDP, BSD users, Linux users, and even Windows users.  Ease of
access invites people into what it is we do in the Linux world.  Wiki
would help them get there, look at how well the Gentoo Wiki is doing.


Note:
Most of you all have been good about maintaining your discipline and
professionalism in this forum thus far.  I have already received a
comment that was immature and very unprofessional.  Thank you for
being open minded.

-Paul

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 8:56 PM, Karl O. Pinc ####@####.#### wrote:
>
> On 07/30/2008 09:22:31 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
>>
>> Quoting Sean Peterson ####@####.####
>>
>> > Can someone say
>> > how TLDP will differentiate itself from a site like
>> > http://www.howtoforge.com/ ?
>
> To my mind the LDP distinguishes itself by it's focus
> as a collection of redistributable documents.
> The LDP has historically focused on being redistributable
> in multiple media, as opposed to a strictly
> web-connected browser-based access method.
>
> IMO it is far, far, too early to argue that
> the browser-over-the-internet access method
> is the be-all and end-all of information acquisition
> and the LDP should retain it's character as a
> collection that's distributable via all kinds
> of channels.
>
>>
>> I'm entirely unclear on why it's incumbent on LDP to differentiate
>> itself from anyone or anything.
>
> Because if it does not it will be lost in the noise
> of the Internet?
>
>
> Karl ####@####.####
> Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
>                 -- Robert A. Heinlein
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
>
>



-- 
----
Paul Hendricksen
United States Army
SGT, Infantry

Quoting Karl O. Pinc ####@####.####

> To my mind the LDP distinguishes itself by it's focus
> as a collection of redistributable documents.

Right.  That's where http://www.howtoforge.com/'s structure and
licensing are relevant.  Those are no accident:  They're incidental to
guy's advertising business model.  (Again, I have no problem with him
having such a business model.)


> >I'm entirely unclear on why it's incumbent on LDP to differentiate
> >itself from anyone or anything.
> 
> Because if it does not it will be lost in the noise
> of the Internet?

We're _all_ lost in the noise of the Internet.  ;->

Personally, Sean's question struck me as yet another "LDP needs to
justify its existence to me for no better reason than my publicly asking
that it do so" post -- which gets kinda old after a while, but you'll
notice that I _did_ answer it anyway.

(I was also a little disappointed to note that the HOWTO about patching
BIND for the July 8 security fixes failed to mention making sure that no
query-source directive in named.conf* locks recursive-resolver packets
to port 53.  If the document had been open source, I would have pitched
in and made that edit.)

Alright, enough.  This is ridiculous.  You said nothing in the last
two post.  Rick, contribute some ideas or just view the post as they
come and perhaps help solve the issue rater than banter others.

-Paul

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:07 PM, Rick Moen ####@####.#### wrote:
> Quoting Karl O. Pinc ####@####.####
>
>> To my mind the LDP distinguishes itself by it's focus
>> as a collection of redistributable documents.
>
> Right.  That's where http://www.howtoforge.com/'s structure and
> licensing are relevant.  Those are no accident:  They're incidental to
> guy's advertising business model.  (Again, I have no problem with him
> having such a business model.)
>
>
>> >I'm entirely unclear on why it's incumbent on LDP to differentiate
>> >itself from anyone or anything.
>>
>> Because if it does not it will be lost in the noise
>> of the Internet?
>
> We're _all_ lost in the noise of the Internet.  ;->
>
> Personally, Sean's question struck me as yet another "LDP needs to
> justify its existence to me for no better reason than my publicly asking
> that it do so" post -- which gets kinda old after a while, but you'll
> notice that I _did_ answer it anyway.
>
> (I was also a little disappointed to note that the HOWTO about patching
> BIND for the July 8 security fixes failed to mention making sure that no
> query-source directive in named.conf* locks recursive-resolver packets
> to port 53.  If the document had been open source, I would have pitched
> in and made that edit.)
>
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
>
>



-- 
----
Paul Hendricksen
United States Army
SGT, Infantry

Quoting ####@####.#### ####@####.####

> Alright, enough.  This is ridiculous.  You said nothing in the last
> two post.

You seem to be trying to pick a fight.  (All that fluent swearing and
attempts at verbal abuse in recent offlist private mail was interesting,
in that regard, too.)  Alas, I'm not interested.

Again, the private email was a retort to your immate comments before.
And no, I do not want to pick a fight, I do that for a living.  I have
bigger worry than yous.  I am simply trying to state my ideas, as are
others, all your doing is using complex words to make yourself sound
smarter and bash others.   I am simply doing what is right, and
standing up to the bully.  Your ideas (that I assume are in your
complex writings hidden in the meaning) are SOOO much better, and
perhaps you should just take them else ware.  I am sure we are all in
agreement that we don't care what you think; perhaps its because you
have not contributed at all?  State your argument for Wiki vs DocBook
or stop posting.

-Paul

On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 9:18 PM, Rick Moen ####@####.#### wrote:
> Quoting ####@####.#### ####@####.####
>
>> Alright, enough.  This is ridiculous.  You said nothing in the last
>> two post.
>
> You seem to be trying to pick a fight.  (All that fluent swearing and
> attempts at verbal abuse in recent offlist private mail was interesting,
> in that regard, too.)  Alas, I'm not interested.
>
>
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
>
>



-- 
----
Paul Hendricksen
United States Army
SGT, Infantry

Quoting ####@####.#### ####@####.####

> Again, the private email was a retort to your immate comments before.
> And no, I do not want to pick a fight, I do that for a living.

Knock yourself out, friend.  Metaphorically.  ;->  Just not with me.

> I am simply doing what is right, and standing up to the bully.

Yes, this is always the very most pleasurable and popular sort of moral
courage, the variety where you suffer no actual adverse consequence and
also get to congratulate yourself in public.  Well done!

On 07/30/2008 10:07:39 PM, Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> (I was also a little disappointed to note that the HOWTO about
> patching
> BIND for the July 8 security fixes failed to mention making sure that
> no
> query-source directive in named.conf* locks recursive-resolver packets
> to port 53.  If the document had been open source, I would have
> pitched
> in and made that edit.)

I too find the non-maintainable documentation annoying.  In the
best of all worlds tldp would depreciate such documents
as soon as they need an edit.  This might encourage
free replacements.

Karl ####@####.####
Free Software:  "You don't pay back, you pay forward."
                  -- Robert A. Heinlein