discuss: Thread: EIN (was Re: Free google ads for TLDP?)

On Thu, Apr 05, 2007 at 02:33:50PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> 
> (The primary intended purpose of getting an EIN = Employer
> Identification Number is to uniquely identify a business to the IRS and
> other US Federal agencies for purposes of the business owing and paying
> payroll and other business taxes.  There is no such thing as a
> "non-profit EIN", and having an EIN in no way demonstrates that one is
> non-profit at all, let alone a 501(c)(3) charity.)

While this is true, VolunteerMatch requires that one provide an EIN.
Also, one certifies to the IRS that the organization is a non-profit
on the EIN application so the IRS has been told that the organization
is non-profit.  I phoned the IRS to find out if the information given
on the application is available to the public and was told it was not.

However, if one knows your EIN or even just your name (if it's unique)
they can look at your non-profit income returns (form 990) filed with
the IRS.  Except that LDP doesn't file such returns because our income
is too low.

So I'm concerned about getting an EIN for the purpose of using
VolunteerMatch.  Suppose VolunteerMatch gets our EIN and then checks
with the IRS for a 990 form filed by LDP and finds nothing.  Then they
might think that we are not a non-profit and not accept our ads.  I'll
look into this by attempting to contact VolunteerMatch to find out
what they check on once you give them an EIN number.  Perhaps they
don't do any checking at all, but also don't want to admit this and
thus want you to think that they check it out.  Or they might just
check to see if the EIN number you gave exists and is in your name
(without finding out if you are a non-profit or not).

			David Lawyer

Quoting David Lawyer ####@####.####

> While this is true, VolunteerMatch requires that one provide an EIN.

Yes, acknowledged -- and you did already explain that your goal is to
meet VolunteerMatch's criteria.  Please note that I said "primary
intended", not "only".  I was attempting to explain the realities of tax
and regulatory law, in the broader sense, as that is likely to remain a
topic of interest.

> Also, one certifies to the IRS that the organization is a non-profit
> on the EIN application so the IRS has been told that the organization
> is non-profit. 

This, however, does not establish that the organisation _is_ a
non-profit, in the IRS's eyes.  To settle that question requires filing
form 1023 ("Application for Recognition of Exemption Under Section
501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code"), or, as appropriate, form 1024,
1023, or 1028 -- and then waiting a long time for your determination
letter.[1]

Technically, even before then, you're still free to assert that you're a
non-profit and not pay income tax even if you _do_ have more than
$25,000 in gross revenues:  The only difference is, that, without a
determination letter, the burden's on you to show that your group
qualifies (per tax law) for exemption from income tax.

> However, if one knows your EIN or even just your name (if it's unique)
> they can look at your non-profit income returns (form 990) filed with
> the IRS.  Except that LDP doesn't file such returns because our income
> is too low.

Again, US organisations file form 990 annual returns with IRS because
they _have_ to, not because they want to.  Because computerists often
get this backwards, I added the "Common Misconceptions" section on that
and similar points to the User Group HOWTO.

I see that VolunteerMatch states:  "We require registered
organizations to submit their EIN (employer identification number) to
verify their tax-exempt status."  Just FYI:  that explanation, as
stated, actually makes no sense.

> So I'm concerned about getting an EIN for the purpose of using
> VolunteerMatch.  Suppose VolunteerMatch gets our EIN and then checks
> with the IRS for a 990 form filed by LDP and finds nothing.  Then they
> might think that we are not a non-profit and not accept our ads.

Well, you'd have to ask them -- but, frankly, it looks to me like just
another wacky Web 2.0 site.  

[1] Summary for each of the various type of tax-exempt organisations:
http://www.paperglyphs.com/nporegulation/documents/exempt_orgs.html
For more information, read IRS Publication 557, Tax-Exempt
Status for Your Organization.

> Quoting David Lawyer ####@####.####
> > So I'm concerned about getting an EIN for the purpose of using
> > VolunteerMatch.  Suppose VolunteerMatch gets our EIN and then checks
> > with the IRS for a 990 form filed by LDP and finds nothing.  Then they
> > might think that we are not a non-profit and not accept our ads.
> 
On Wed, Apr 11, 2007 at 02:26:04PM -0700, Rick Moen wrote:
> Well, you'd have to ask them -- but, frankly, it looks to me like just
> another wacky Web 2.0 site.  

While VolunteerMatch may not check on non-profit status as well as they
could, they seem to be the major website used for matching volunteers
with positions.  I checked out some other volunteer match sites and
only VolunteerMatch has a category that we fit into perfectly:
Computers with location "virtual" meaning that you can be anywhere
there's an internet and volunteer for LDP.  I looked at some of the
posted opportunities and they seemed to be current and well described.

Also they claim to have over 40,000 positions currently listed on
their site and googling VolunteerMatch and "Linux Documentation
Project" returns roughly the same number of hits (1 million; .8
million).  So I wouldn't say they are just another wacky Website
(unless you also classify LDP as the same --there are likely more
things wrong with our organization and procedures than with theirs:-).

I don't know how many volunteers we could find thru them but even if
it was only one every few months it would help a lot.  The volunteers
probably wouldn't know as much about Linux as the current volunteers
but they likely would have a lot more time to devote to it.

			David Lawyer

Quoting David Lawyer ####@####.####

> I don't know how many volunteers we could find thru them but even if
> it was only one every few months it would help a lot.

I wouldn't dream of being critical.  Good hunting!

-- 
Cheers, "Your program just attempted an illegal instruction.  No worries, mate."
Rick Moen                         -- Australian error messages, #14 in a series
####@####.####