discuss: Thread: XML

Hi all. 

Since it appears xml is becoming more accepted as the
standard, I have been trying to find some stuff in
tldp.org on xml, but what I seem to only see is sgml.
I went ahead and wrote a small how to (for myself)
and can not see the big difference between xml and
sgml when writing docs

I have read the section on xml differenced from sgml
in the tldp.org, but have a hard time believeing thats
it.
Is there any other place to look for this?

Thanks

G

--- Kian Spongsveen ####@####.#### wrote:
> There are HOWTOs for several commercial relational
> databases available; DB2, 
> Oracle (several versions), Sybase ASA.
> I'm planning to write a HOWTO on Sybase Adaptive
> Server Enterprise / SQL 
> Server. There are various versions available with
> different licensing etc. 
> (none open source, but both "free as in beer" and
> developer versions), I'll 
> get that covered in the doc.
> It should contain installation and the first steps
> of basic usage, with 
> real-world known problems you could hit during
> installation. Also links / 
> pointers to further information.
> I expect to have an initial suggestion for an
> outline of the doc quite soon.
> 
> The title will be:
> "Sybase ASE / SQL Server HOWTO"
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Kian Spongsveen
> 
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
> 


__________________________________
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This one time, at band camp, Gerardo Arnaez ####@####.#### wrote:
> I went ahead and wrote a small how to (for myself)
> and can not see the big difference between xml and
> sgml when writing docs

The reason you can't see a big difference is because there is none. 
XML just doesn't allow you to take any of the obfuscated shortcuts 
that SGML does (not allowing these is a Good Thing). EG, you can't do 
<para>Yo</>.

Morgon
-- 
"Man is the only creature capable of hating itself" -- Governor of Japan 
in The End of Evangelion

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:58, Morgon Kanter wrote:
> This one time, at band camp, Gerardo Arnaez ####@####.#### wrote:
> > I went ahead and wrote a small how to (for myself)
> > and can not see the big difference between xml and
> > sgml when writing docs
> 
> The reason you can't see a big difference is because there is none. 
> XML just doesn't allow you to take any of the obfuscated shortcuts 
> that SGML does (not allowing these is a Good Thing). EG, you can't do 
> <para>Yo</>.

Right, and with a few differences in the first couple of lines, it
really is the same.  For DocBook, anyway.  I can usually take just about
any DocBook SGML file, just change the top couple of lines, save as XML
and have it parse perfectly.


-- 
Tabatha Marshall
Web: www.merlinmonroe.com
Linux Documentation Project Review Coordinator (http://www.tldp.org)
Linux Counter Area Manager US:wa (http://counter.li.org)

Speaking of parse.
I run debian and sued to be able to jsut sgmltool
file.sgml and get a html files

what do I need to get xml into html?



--- Tabatha Marshall ####@####.#### wrote:
> On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 15:58, Morgon Kanter wrote:
> > This one time, at band camp, Gerardo Arnaez
> ####@####.#### wrote:
> > > I went ahead and wrote a small how to (for
> myself)
> > > and can not see the big difference between xml
> and
> > > sgml when writing docs
> > 
> > The reason you can't see a big difference is
> because there is none. 
> > XML just doesn't allow you to take any of the
> obfuscated shortcuts 
> > that SGML does (not allowing these is a Good
> Thing). EG, you can't do 
> > <para>Yo</>.
> 
> Right, and with a few differences in the first
> couple of lines, it
> really is the same.  For DocBook, anyway.  I can
> usually take just about
> any DocBook SGML file, just change the top couple of
> lines, save as XML
> and have it parse perfectly.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Tabatha Marshall
> Web: www.merlinmonroe.com
> Linux Documentation Project Review Coordinator
> (http://www.tldp.org)
> Linux Counter Area Manager US:wa
> (http://counter.li.org)
> 
> 
> ______________________
> http://lists.tldp.org/
> 


__________________________________
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That took me a few seconds to figure out what you were asking...

> Speaking of parse.
> I run debian and sued to be able to jsut sgmltool
> file.sgml and get a html files
> 
> what do I need to get xml into html?

An XSLT processor and the XSL styesheets. Just do:
# apt-get install xsltproc docbook-xsl
man xsltproc

To stop the damn thing from downloading the DTD every time (Debian 
will have XML catalogs ready Real Soon Now), do:
export SGML_CATALOG_FILES=/etc/sgml/catalog
xsltproc --catalog

Morgon
-- 
"Man is the only creature capable of hating itself" -- Governor of Japan 
in The End of Evangelion

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 18:44, Gerardo Arnaez wrote:
> Speaking of parse.
> I run debian and sued to be able to jsut sgmltool
> file.sgml and get a html files
> 
> what do I need to get xml into html?

Well, you can try Morgon Kanter's suggestion, or you can also use
Openjade with the dsl (DSSSL) stylesheets.

Before RH8 came along, I always followed Jim Weller's DocBook XML
Quickstart Guide (www.jimweller.net).  His info was the one that always
got me up and running quickly until this distro finally got authoring
tools right!

-- 
Tabatha Marshall
Web: www.merlinmonroe.com
Linux Documentation Project Review Coordinator (http://www.tldp.org)
Linux Counter Area Manager US:wa (http://counter.li.org)

This one time, at band camp, Tabatha Marshall ####@####.#### wrote:
> Well, you can try Morgon Kanter's suggestion, or you can also use
> Openjade with the dsl (DSSSL) stylesheets.

Openjade seems to be what everyone uses, but nobody likes (or am I wrong 
here? I've just never found anyone who particularly liked it).

I'm not entirely sure (because I haven't tried), but it seems that 
xsltproc can handle Docbook SGML (and apparantly appling XSL 
transformations to it, or at least that's what I'm reading this as). 
From man xsltproc:
--docbook
      The  input  document  is  DocBook SGML. Do not use the --docbook
      option of xsltproc to process XML DocBook documents, this option
      is  only  intended to provide some (limited) support of the SGML
      version of DocBook.

Morgon
-- 
"Man is the only creature capable of hating itself" -- Governor of Japan 
in The End of Evangelion

On Fri, 2003-07-11 at 19:34, Morgon Kanter wrote:
> This one time, at band camp, Tabatha Marshall ####@####.#### wrote:
> > Well, you can try Morgon Kanter's suggestion, or you can also use
> > Openjade with the dsl (DSSSL) stylesheets.
> 
> Openjade seems to be what everyone uses, but nobody likes (or am I wrong 
> here? I've just never found anyone who particularly liked it).

Yeah, I'd agree with that from my own experience.  Problem is, I went
through so much learning Openjade, that the one time I took a look at
xsltproc, I think my subconscious refused to let it in!

> I'm not entirely sure (because I haven't tried), but it seems that 
> xsltproc can handle Docbook SGML (and apparantly appling XSL 
> transformations to it, or at least that's what I'm reading this as). 
> >From man xsltproc:
> --docbook
>       The  input  document  is  DocBook SGML. Do not use the --docbook
>       option of xsltproc to process XML DocBook documents, this option
>       is  only  intended to provide some (limited) support of the SGML
>       version of DocBook.

One day with a little spare time on my hand I'll give it another try. 
For a while there, it was just easier to go with what I knew - I had too
many reviews to complete and needed to process as fast as I could.  With
more reviewers on board, it gives me more experimentation time.


-- 
Tabatha Marshall
Web: www.merlinmonroe.com
Linux Documentation Project Review Coordinator (http://www.tldp.org)
Linux Counter Area Manager US:wa (http://counter.li.org)

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 22:34:51 -0400 Morgon Kanter ####@####.#### wrote:

> This one time, at band camp, Tabatha Marshall ####@####.####
> wrote:
> > Well, you can try Morgon Kanter's suggestion, or you can also use
> > Openjade with the dsl (DSSSL) stylesheets.
> 
> Openjade seems to be what everyone uses, but nobody likes (or am I wrong 
> here? I've just never found anyone who particularly liked it).

I'm ok with it. It does the job just fine. Not particularly great 
performance, but... Oh, and DSSSL is not the easiest thing to learn. 
I think that's why it turns off a lot of folks.

> I'm not entirely sure (because I haven't tried), but it seems that 
> xsltproc can handle Docbook SGML (and apparantly appling XSL 
> transformations to it, or at least that's what I'm reading this as). 
> From man xsltproc:
> --docbook
>       The  input  document  is  DocBook SGML. Do not use the --docbook
>       option of xsltproc to process XML DocBook documents, this option
>       is  only  intended to provide some (limited) support of the SGML
>       version of DocBook.

See the phrase "limited support"...that's indeed what you get (at least
the last time I tried it).
 
--
Greg

Morgon Kanter wrote:
> This one time, at band camp, Tabatha Marshall ####@####.#### wrote:
> 
>>Well, you can try Morgon Kanter's suggestion, or you can also use
>>Openjade with the dsl (DSSSL) stylesheets.
> 
> 
> Openjade seems to be what everyone uses, but nobody likes (or am I wrong 
> here? I've just never found anyone who particularly liked it).
> 

<plug type="shameless">
Try the new and improved tldp-xsl stylesheets with Saxon or XSLTproc. 
The package's readme.html file describes how to get going quickly.
</plug>

Dave