discuss: Thread: Correctly referencing another author(s) in a document

I think I asked this question is the past but I'm not sure of the answer.

What is the correct way to reference an author when I have used portions of 
there work in my document?
The document is the GNU/Linux Tools Summary HOWTO hosted at: 
www.karakas-online.de/LinuxCommands/t1.html

Because in some areas I have used material that was copyrighted under a 
non-free license and have paraphrased and edited it, that is legal isn't it? 
(the author is referenced in the references section).

But there is some material which is under a free-license (GFDL) which I 
would like to use, do I need to paraphrase it? how do I correctly reference 
that this there work?  (ie. do I need to quote an entire block and then have 
a thing saying this is from reference no 4. or something?), they will of 
course be added to the references...(do I need to mention every author of 
that document? (because there a list of 20....)

Also I've used material from various manual and info pages and some of it 
may not have been paraphrased (its only small sections if I have done this, 
eg. usually less than a paragraph or just 1 sentence.
The thing is I've only generally referenced all manual and info pages, not 
each individual author of the particular man or info page, is that legal?

Any advice is appreciated.
Gareth

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On Fri, May 16, 2003, Guru - wrote:
> I think I asked this question is the past but I'm not sure of the
> answer.
> 
> What is the correct way to reference an author when I have used
> portions of there work in my document?  The document is the GNU/Linux
> Tools Summary HOWTO hosted at:
> www.karakas-online.de/LinuxCommands/t1.html
> 
> Because in some areas I have used material that was copyrighted under
> a non-free license and have paraphrased and edited it, that is legal
> isn't it? (the author is referenced in the references section).

Generally, you should clearly indicate in the body as well that the
idea/description that you are using is not your original work. In
academic writing this is done with a footnote eg "Several types of GNU
spider plants grow bright foliage in winter[1]" where [1] is a footnote
citing the work, or with a short citation along the lines of "Stallman
(1997) observed that several types of GNU spider plants grow bright
foliage in winter" or "Several types of GNU spider plants grow bright
foliage in winter (Stallman, 1997)".

There are two reasons for this:

 1. Giving the person whose work it was sufficient credit.

 2. Giving the reader a way to get more information.

If you only give references at the end of your document, it is
impossible to tell what help you got from each document, and it is also
impossible for someone who is particularly interested in GNU spider
plants to know whether to ask you more about them, or which of your
references to read.

In academic writing (as opposed to here, perhaps?) not having citations
in the document body where you use someone else's, even if they are in
the references list, is grounds for getting in a fair bit of trouble.

Most tools have some way to generate and insert the references
automatically as long as you have a marker of some kind there, but I
don't know how to do referencing of that type in Docbook.

> But there is some material which is under a free-license (GFDL) which
> I would like to use, do I need to paraphrase it? how do I correctly
> reference that this there work?  (ie. do I need to quote an entire
> block and then have a thing saying this is from reference no 4. or
> something?), they will of course be added to the references...(do I
> need to mention every author of that document? (because there a list
> of 20....)

I'm not sure of the particular format the TLDP uses, but I'm sure
someone more informed will respond as to how many authors to list in the
bibliography.

You should read the GFDL as to how much of the work you can quote and
how you need to deal with the fact that they still own the copyright.

I suspect that if you want to briefly quote from or cite any document at
all, regardless of the licencing, you should clearly indicate that it is
a quote (using block indentation or quote marks) or if you paraphrase,
cite it in some way as above, for exactly the same reasons as you cite
non-free work.

-Mary

   "Generally, you should clearly indicate in the body as well that the 
idea/description that you are using is not your original work. In academic 
writing this is done with a footnote eg "Several types of GNU
spider plants grow bright foliage in winter[1]" where [1] is a footnote 
citing the work, or with a short citation along the lines of "Stallman 
(1997) observed that several types of GNU spider plants grow bright
foliage in winter" or "Several types of GNU spider plants grow bright 
foliage in winter (Stallman, 1997)"."

But with UNIX tools this is quite hard, because I would have used 
information from various sources without even remembering where I learned 
this information (but I don't think thats illegal because I would have 
formed my own ideas from what I learned and it may not look anything like 
the source).
For most of the tools I have probably used very small amounts from the 
manual page, does this matter? Because I don't think you can copyright every 
single word in a document.....

"In academic writing (as opposed to here, perhaps?) not having citations in 
the document body where you use someone else's, even if they are in the 
references list, is grounds for getting in a fair bit of trouble."
Its more than a bit of trouble, all work at Uni. is sent via plagarism 
detectors, the penalities range from failing the unit to explulsion from the 
Uni.
Also I *may* be using this document as the basis of an academic document so 
I intend to make sure I am not performing any form of plagurism (well some 
people think it may be possible to use it as a research paper, but I'm not 
sure yet...).

  "Most tools have some way to generate and insert the references 
automatically as long as you have a marker of some kind there, but I don't 
know how to do referencing of that type in Docbook."
Does anyone know the way to do this is DocBook SGML? (because the tool I'm 
using can do this....but I had to manually do the references so I can't 
reference to those sections because LyX doesn't understand them...).

  "I'm not sure of the particular format the TLDP uses, but I'm sure someone 
more informed will respond as to how many authors to list in the 
bibliography."
Anyone know? Please respond...

  "You should read the GFDL as to how much of the work you can quote and how 
you need to deal with the fact that they still own the copyright. I suspect 
that if you want to briefly quote from or cite any document at all, 
regardless of the licencing, you should clearly indicate that it is a quote 
(using block indentation or quote marks) or if you paraphrase, cite it in 
some way as above, for exactly the same reasons as you cite non-free work."
I don't know if I'll be able to understand the GFDL (I understand its 
purpose but not the smaller details), does anyone happen to know this?

I will have to go through my document and add various citations for blocks 
of text which I have used from various sources but if I reference every 
little section when I've used information from other sources then half of my 
entire document will be citations and quotes.

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On Sat, May 17, 2003, Guru - wrote:
> But with UNIX tools this is quite hard, because I would have used
> information from various sources without even remembering where I
> learned this information (but I don't think thats illegal because I
> would have formed my own ideas from what I learned and it may not look
> anything like the source).

Again, in academia, I've heard a very rough guide: "information you can
find in more than four places doesn't need to be cited". Now, that's
very rough, some things will always need to be cited - just because you
can find four people who write that the moon is made of cheese doesn't
mean that it's an unquestionable fact.

A vaguer but better test is "is it common knowledge among people working
in this area/with this tool?"

> For most of the tools I have probably used very small amounts from the
> manual page, does this matter? Because I don't think you can copyright
> every single word in a document.....

I would suggest putting quote marks around any full phrase.

> I will have to go through my document and add various citations for
> blocks of text which I have used from various sources but if I
> reference every little section when I've used information from other
> sources then half of my entire document will be citations and quotes.

Well, I don't know how much citation the TLDP will require. It concerns
me a little that all the questions in your email were "is this legal?"
rather than "is this ethical?"

Use your common sense. If someone's work has saved you time, acknowledge
that help. At the same time, don't waste your reader's time by littering
your document with unneeded citations. There is a fine balance here, but
you can use common sense to judge it.

If a section of your work relies extensively on other work, mention
that. It doesn't need to be cited after every sentence, but noting in
the introduction something like "these command line options are found on
the blah man page which also documents less commonly needed command line
options" wouldn't go astray in my opinion.

-Mary

On Fri, May 16, 2003 at 01:40:02PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> I think I asked this question is the past but I'm not sure of the answer.
> 
> What is the correct way to reference an author when I have used portions of 
> there work in my document?
> The document is the GNU/Linux Tools Summary HOWTO hosted at: 
> www.karakas-online.de/LinuxCommands/t1.html
> 
> Because in some areas I have used material that was copyrighted under a 
> non-free license and have paraphrased and edited it, that is legal isn't 
> it? (the author is referenced in the references section).

No it's not legal.  Facts themselves can't be copyrighted but the
expression of them is copytrighted.  So you need to read the copyrighted
work (plus usually other sources) and reorganize the facts in your own
words.  Just editing and paraphrasing isn't enough.

> But there is some material which is under a free-license (GFDL) which I 
> would like to use, do I need to paraphrase it?
Not if you use GFDL.

> how do I correctly reference that this there work?  (ie. do I need to
> quote an entire block and then have a thing saying this is from
> reference no 4. or something?), they will of course be added to the
> references...(do I need to mention every author of that document?
> (because there a list of 20....)

You could have a link to the orginal so people could click on it to see
the list of authors.
> 
> Also I've used material from various manual and info pages and some of it 
> may not have been paraphrased (its only small sections if I have done this, 
> eg. usually less than a paragraph or just 1 sentence.
> The thing is I've only generally referenced all manual and info pages, not 
> each individual author of the particular man or info page, is that legal?

The manual and info pages are mostly factual information, but you need
to state them in your own words. 

			David Lawyer

"No it's not legal.  Facts themselves can't be copyrighted but the 
expression of them is copytrighted.  So you need to read the copyrighted 
work (plus usually other sources) and reorganize the facts in your own 
words.  Just editing and paraphrasing isn't enough."
So I have to rewrite them in my own words? I thought that was what 
paraphrasing was?

"Definition: A paraphrase is writing an author's ideas in your own words. A 
paraphrase should be approximately the same length as the original..." 
(quote from http://courses.unt.edu/cogden/Paraphrasing.htm).
A lot of what I have being calling "paraphrasing" is complete rewrites but 
there are still some that is has similarity to the original.

"But there is some material which is under a free-license (GFDL) which I 
would like to use, do I need to paraphrase it? Not if you use GFDL."
Well I am using the GFDL....does that mean if can use it word for word if I 
block quote it? (and use the correct citation).

"You could have a link to the orginal so people could click on it to see the 
list of authors."
Good idea.

"The manual and info pages are mostly factual information, but you need to 
state them in your own words."
Ok, sure. But there is one section, which I'm assuming I would use 
block-quotation and citation.....I would like to directly quote the POSIX 
standard on a particular thing, I don't think that I can express these facts 
in my own words so is it ok to block quote and use citation if its under the 
GFDL?

And in regard to Mary's comment it is a question of legality, as I believe I 
already know the ethics behind this (I shouldn't be using any one else's 
material unless its correctly cited and under a license which allows 
this.....).
I have already spoken to several of the authors before I released this HOWTO 
in draft form onto the web, there is only 1 who declined the use of his work 
thats one of the reasons why I'm asking these questions.

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On Sun, May 18, 2003 at 08:10:44PM +1000, Guru - wrote:
> "No it's not legal.  Facts themselves can't be copyrighted but the 
> expression of them is copyrighted.  So you need to read the copyrighted 
> work (plus usually other sources) and reorganize the facts in your own 
> words.  Just editing and paraphrasing isn't enough."
> So I have to rewrite them in my own words? I thought that was what 
> paraphrasing was?

Not exactly.  If you reorganize facts and use more than one source for
the facts, you are not paraphrasing.  And in the case where there is
only one manual, just reorganizing the facts in it and explaining them
differently, perhaps with your own examples, isn't paraphrasing.
Also, under the fair use doctrine, one may quote brief excepts from
copyrighted material.  If it's under a free license, this should be even
more permissible (in my opinion and IANAL).

> 
> "Definition: A paraphrase is writing an author's ideas in your own words. A 
> paraphrase should be approximately the same length as the original..." 
> (quote from http://courses.unt.edu/cogden/Paraphrasing.htm).
> A lot of what I have being calling "paraphrasing" is complete rewrites but 
> there are still some that is has similarity to the original.
> 
> "But there is some material which is under a free-license (GFDL) which I 
> would like to use, do I need to paraphrase it? Not if you use GFDL."
> Well I am using the GFDL....does that mean if can use it word for word if I 
> block quote it? (and use the correct citation).
Of course.
> 
> "You could have a link to the original so people could click on it to see 
> the list of authors."
> Good idea.
> 
> "The manual and info pages are mostly factual information, but you need to 
> state them in your own words."
> Ok, sure. But there is one section, which I'm assuming I would use 
> block-quotation and citation.....I would like to directly quote the POSIX 
> standard on a particular thing, I don't think that I can express these 
> facts in my own words so is it ok to block quote and use citation if its 
> under the GFDL?

Even if POSIX standards are copyrighted, I think you can quote parts of
them under the fair use concept.
> 
> And in regard to Mary's comment it is a question of legality, as I believe 
> I already know the ethics behind this (I shouldn't be using any one else's 
> material unless its correctly cited and under a license which allows 
> this.....).

And even if the license doesn't provided it's fair use.  I don't think
one can restrict fair use by a license.

> I have already spoken to several of the authors before I released this 
> HOWTO in draft form onto the web, there is only 1 who declined the use of 
> his work thats one of the reasons why I'm asking these questions.
> 
			David Lawyer