Subject:
Re: Linux Model is Unix model ? So where's TLDP ?
From:
Mathieu Deschamps ####@####.####
Date:
7 Mar 2005 15:18:21 -0000
Message-Id: <20050307151754.70205.qmail@web60404.mail.yahoo.com>
Addings in the body, I spend much time writing this please be tolerant on my language.
Stein Gjoen ####@####.#### wrote:
Mathieu Deschamps wrote:
>
> Robert Francis wrote:
>
> A good reply I thought, although a bit involved, and breaking the very
> rules stated in the body of the email. If you really want to produce
> something which would allow newbies to find their own level, and pick up
> knowledge and skills in their town time, you do not produce a massive
> documentation (bureaucratic) product, which is clearly (going by the
> present discussion) difficult to produce. You produce something which is
> closer to the original Unix model.
The Unix culture is about a number of things, including diversity
as well as small simple bits that work together. TLDP provides this.
+ This is a pure claim which come with all of the 'insiders'.
Steep learning curve:
read all the manual pages and then type
in your document in something like vi.
+ No comment (cf. prev mail roughly talking of ease)
Intermediate learning curve:
read a Template and modify from there into
whatever document you want to create
http://www.nyx.net/~sgjoen/template.sgml
http://www.nyx.net/~sgjoen/template.html
Easy learning curve:
go to the Linux HOWTO Generator
http://www.nyx.net/~sgjoen/The_LDP_HOWTO_Generator.html
and start typing into the fields in the form
+ Love 'easy' as a KISS... That's surely a good ressource.
> I must be dreaming, this is actually how LDP works from what 'ive understood.
Please have a closer look at the author resources, we have
put in a lot of effort to help people getting started.
+ (cf . previous mail) Look I'am sure everybody works hard here, I know it. But a wrong, +volonteer unfriendly, confinemented way that is killing a great potentiality. To illustrate +here's the shortcut, a story :
+ Programmers like documentation (eg. it help coding), one day a programmer +implements something new. He reminds to write doc. in order to share the vision, but +mostly he wants other fellows to pick up his work clearly so they could also work on it. +He thinks this is an evolution. But he will be disappointed when i'll realize he has to either +rewrite it, if he bears reading texts after texts (prog. like schemes) of "how to get started +in twenty years" (I even not tell about translation work), either to let someone, unknown, +process this text into an 'open' standard (which doesn't suffer outside input = Howto +and guide are formated arbitrary, unfreely, -fix-structured -> where's that bazaar ?- , +writing is a creative work as prog.) and once it is done, he just have to say "and that's +it? How did you do it ? ". Not very didactic.
> And Yes I believe it does not prevent from knowing what my doc I'd like to share
>
> will become, the process it has to follow to get thing done.
All these methods should make it possible to write your document
the way you feel is best.
> Don't take it just for you but :
>
> Invocation of Unix model doesn't excuse being blame for ignorance of
>
> LDP process or rudefully treated, neither it means 'free' is 'freezed' into
The LDP process is itself under development, all inputs
and improvements are welcome. The biggest problem currently
is not the process as it is documented but that we do not
have sufficient resources to make everything run smoothly.
+ lol :) come on, be true ! Not excluded provided they write your english, stick to a +common vision but no more to common sense. Tolerant provided we agreed on the every +aspect, that's not creative and sane at all to deal with people like that !
> the time. Ok that's true Tux is a bit freezed but that all.
>
> Cleariness is not a cathedral, cleariness it is the opposite
>
> of what you named under well known cies. Cleariness is
>
> not a ennemy of the bazaar, few structures doesn't mean
>
> fuzzy content.
I am not certain what you mean so I cannot respon. Could
you rephrase it?
+Short: You follow the Unix and/or Linux Model as I am good at writing english, grammar +as vocabulary.
+Complete: I feel this community work in closed circuit, in opacity and want to share the +hows and the whys only if you're in for several years, and have time to waste, this is +cathedral policy no a bazaar policy. But I don't want to be too severe maybe that's hard +to stay light and simple and to stand the test of time (10 years, nice).
> Elitism should not swallow Linux. That's a insane confinement
Joining TLDP requires very little other than a wish to help
and the ability to do work. I sincerely hope that is not
elitist.
+ I insiste, TLDP selection covers many forms. But don't make me saying that's done on +purpose. As you said later on, active members never been a lot. Ah ! But precise on +Quantity that's a few, some, somewhat several, several, numerous, a lot, many, too +many ? Another example, tell me, except the few experienced members that know the +editing policy of TLDP, who'd like to read these boring, long, formatted how-to on how-+to ? I don't know take a experienced linux user that just worked on something new, a +typical case, I noticed his work and think about sharing it. Simply, does this lambda guy +want and will read authoring howto howto ? And why not a howto howto on a guide +howto ? Better a authoring howto on linux howto knowing if you know to acess it.
+ Seriously,
+What if I just have to 'Post' my doc on a specific matter (which has, by the way, very few +doc) without being a member of LDP. You see it we don't share the same vision, you and +I don't want to be associed each other anyway, do you ? Ok but where's in the +Unix/Linux model is said I couldn't do both ? ("Post" without being a member I mean, +without eg. having to receved daily tons of mails).
+"Come on, come on common sense !" I just want to be a volonteer for my doc and then +be gone, and eventually be back for a next writing or so.
> .
>
> The funniest of all, is that everybody's wondering why there's
>
> a lack of volonteer. Is that a Open Mouvement ? Tell me
Documentation has never attracted many people. TLDP has
existed for more than 10 years yet the group of active
members on this mailing list has never been huge.
Traffic on this list tends to be low volume, somehow traffic
has exploded the last few days, I cannot remember last time
it was this active.
+ Exploded theses day you say ? Maybe there are changes in the air ? Oh no that's just a +coincidence...
+This is good to my sense if it renew clean some dirty things. Don't say doc doesn't +attract people, that's a mistake. Having a vade meccum, widely spread, frequently +updated, of a good quality and easy accessable is all Linux users/progs. dream of +provided is display (on the same criterias) the way to learn it. Don't blame anyone +specific and at least not volonteers.
TLDP is indeed an open movement, you are free to join and
our mailing lists are open for perusal.
+ True, basically.
"+ This is a pure claim which come with all of the 'insiders'."
> You let those who have the initiative
> a free hand to explain matters in their own way, and leave it to the
> free market to decide whether they have produced something worth while.
Theer is no money, fame or other market like benefits in
being a TLDP member so I cannot see how free market theories
apply.
+ Couldn't agree more, just saying no comment.
> You aren't far from invocating Unix model to say new comers shall contribute and shut...
I am not sure what this mean.
+ Well, :^,$s/new comers/newbies/g. I dislike newbies term it induce you're a beginner +which could be as it can't.
Regards,
Stein Gjoen
+ Cordially,
+ Mathieu Deschamps
+ Ps : Please, I beg your pardon for my very bad english. But at you're contact it +will upgrade.
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